Robotic Following Cart to Replace Light Duty Tractor Tasks?

[candersen10]

Would the cart have the ability to follow a user through a field, create a map of where it follow and them autonomously repeat that mapped trial through the field? If it can autonomously repeat a mapped route of field then I could see potential application for sprayer application for an aqueous insecticide or fertilizer. Heck it may be stretch but it could be used to deliver metered water to crops in a dry/drought situation to extend the crops life...I couldn't see it engineering enough water to keep crops gong during a drought but it it could extend their life another week or two for better weather to hit there may be a market.

mcj115 - our idea is that Burro would follow a user to record a path, and could then simply re-run that path with basic obstacle avoidance (i.e. if something was in front of Burro, he would stop and wait for that thing that moved into the path to move out of the way again). Burro is relatively small, but certainly I'd imagine he could run a small sprayer on the back for that type of thing (spraying or watering on a relatively human scale).

We believe there are infinite applications for Burro, but our target msrp of $4.5-5K is as low as we can build Burro with what is available today hence the quest to maximize utility and handiness to a customer base with a real pain point for this type of repetitive small-payload shuttling labor.

 

[mcj115]

I would also recommend there be the option for an automated switch control also be added to mapped route to operate as solenoid or actuator.

 

[candersen10]

2WD with rear caster versus 4WD? What are thoughts here on the merits of each?

2WD takes us to around $5K MSRP. 4WD takes us to around $6K. That's with following, and likely with path retrace.

Scale is 24 inches wide, 13 inch drive wheels in both cases, 2WD we would likely run a 24 x 36 inch bed, 4WD we would aim for a 24x48 inch bed.

 

[daugen]

if this is going to be used outdoors, 4wd would eliminate many of your traction concerns, because 2wd is really only one tire drive. I doubt your little rig
will have limited slip but i would be interested in seeing the steering gear, which assuming birectional operation would be similar on both ends.
Plus 4wd allows you to offer a larger bed surface.
Indoors on hard floors no reason for 4wd usually so it would add cost unnecessarily to the product.

I'd worry about that caster getting hung with something, like a hose.

 

[BigToeTN]

I like where you are going with this, however I have a few thoughts:
1) It appears the following and route assignment technology is the value and can be applied to just about any cart design.
2) The price seems high because most of us hobby farmers just use our multi purpose tractors that can't be replace with this cart.
3) Route memorization has potential to be significantly valuable to the right kind of orchard or plant nursery farmers, maybe even certain soft vegetable crop farmers who manually harvest.
4) I would spend time with the specialty farmers perhaps even work with them for a few weekends to see if you can lock down a specific need for repetitive trips to and from say a barn or during harvest to haul baskets of produce in and out of rows to a central truck loading station. I would then design the cart size and capacity around their needs as they perform these task day in and day out so $5000 for this cart wouldn't seem too much if it can pay for itself in productivity over say 4-8 years.
5) You may need to self fund and trial a prototype with a grower so you have proof of concept, a reference, and proven labor savings to other growers/potential buyers.
6) $10,000 is a relatively low amount to crowd fund, if you connect with several of these growers and get their interest, they may each contribute if they think it will save them money down the road

Hope this helps,

 

[candersen10]

if this is going to be used outdoors, 4wd would eliminate many of your traction concerns, because 2wd is really only one tire drive. I doubt your little rig
will have limited slip but i would be interested in seeing the steering gear, which assuming birectional operation would be similar on both ends.
Plus 4wd allows you to offer a larger bed surface.
Indoors on hard floors no reason for 4wd usually so it would add cost unnecessarily to the product.

I'd worry about that caster getting hung with something, like a hose.

It is 100% electric drive with drive motors for each wheel, so there is not an issue with just one wheel getting power or any sort of differential.

 

[daugen]

It is 100% electric drive with drive motors for each wheel, so there is not an issue with just one wheel getting power or any sort of differential.

3 or 4 tire drive is darn good. Just ask audi and subaru...electric motors with appropriate controller software actually makes this simpler. Now controller software much less radar guided software with lots of protective devices built in is not simple at all to most of us, but that seems to be what you know well.
I agree you need to build one and have someone demo it, give them one free someday if need be but references and pictures of machines in action vs glossy marketing sheets
will get you phone calls. From then on you have a true educational sale.

route memorization and gps guidance may not be plug and play out there but it's sure been around awhile in large ag, so perhaps trickle down will bring
advanced features at not too high incorporation cost. You can always get the client to buy an advanced "tech package", maybe a mandatory option for many
but keeps the basic model cost down

 

[candersen10]

4WD chassis. Still working on the coding...

 

[quicksandfarmer]

View attachment 501897

4WD chassis. Still working on the coding...

If you want to quickly get something out in front of potential users I suggest you "mechanical Turk" it. That means have a human pretending to be a computer operate it. (Named in honor of an 18th century fraudulent chess playing machine -- The Turk - Wikipedia ). I don't mean that you would deceive anyone, but you would write up a list of its capabilties, and then have a human operator who is told he can only do the things on the list. Then have him work with a potential user for a few days and ask him if he feels it's useful. You'll learn a lot more in a few days than you would building and debugging prototypes and field-testing them.

It looks like you could easily fit it with a controller for an RC car. Depending on what type of computer you are using you could probably put in control over bluetooth or WIFI. As you figure out what sensors it needs you can add the sensors and tell the human operator he can only react to the sensors, not his own eyes and ears.

 

[daugen]

http://www.mobileye.com/our-technology/
I bet these folks have some coding for you...likely for an indigestible cost

I like the 4wd prototype, keep at it.
I'd like one programmed to go up and down my orchard rows of blooming fruit trees and spray water on them each night in the freezes ahead.

 

[candersen10]

http://www.mobileye.com/our-technology/
I bet these folks have some coding for you...likely for an indigestible cost

I like the 4wd prototype, keep at it.
I'd like one programmed to go up and down my orchard rows of blooming fruit trees and spray water on them each night in the freezes ahead.

further progress. More to come, just a bit more coding to true smooth following!

 

[daugen]

Browse Papers on Collision avoidance systems : Topic Results - SAE International

not sure you have time to slug through this but I wound up following a link to here, the SAE collision avoidance papers.
Likely a number of distance parameters have to be input and perhaps could be modifiable by the user, like how close to follow
Before you make the final draft of your video, try to get the "actor" to walk as naturally as possible. With an identifiable tool in their hand.
And just because you are in a vineyard doesn't mean it can't be hauling a sack of cement
for a new post somewhere...all purpose, more than one reason to justify purchase. Though for sure the first pic
should be of a cart overflowing with ripe grapes. The bounty, use this cart and look at all these good results.
Male, female and three different nationality users and you should be fine.

 

[candersen10]

Daugen, thank you for that. We'll check that info out!

Here is a customer survey we have set up to get further feedback on our concept. Would appreciate anyone on the forum filling it out if they would be willing as we work towards commercialization.

Also, please check out our website (AGR) from time to time - we are making progress as we work towards commercialization.

Thanks!

 

[candersen10]

Getting close to Smooth Following. This has got to have some uses! Or am I off base?

 

[MossRoad]

Put that 291 pounds over the caster and try and drive it through soft soil. Workers in the field (or a warehouse), aren't going to take the time to load it evenly or over the drive wheels.

Also, be sure to try it with the weight stacked higher and over one of the corners over the caster. The farther toward the caster and the more toward a corner, the more tippy it'll become.

Then load it that way and drive it across a slope, up and down a slope, and diagonally up and down a slope.

Gotta be sure to figure out load weights, heights, center of gravity. Don't forget, as you turn, even on level ground, your center of gravity will change because the axle of that caster is offset from the centerline of the vertical pivot point of the caster.

Then put that 261 pounds on 2" incrementally higher stands and keep testing.

Lets say someone puts a 55 gallon barrel on there and fills it even half way with water. That's still under 250 pounds. Now take that on the caster end and drive it across a slope and turn while on the slope.

One thing about workers.... they aren't going to obey weight limits. They aren't going to adhere to operating parameters. They're gonna load it with matches and drive it through the dynamite factory.

 

[candersen10]

Making progress - getting closer to a cart that can follow you. Now approach we are using allows it to follow you like a dog (remote free -
just walk up, it picks you up, and starts following you). Short clip of it here: Instagram

 

[daugen]

Making progress - getting closer to a cart that can follow you. Now approach we are using allows it to follow you like a dog (remote free -
just walk up, it picks you up, and starts following you). Short clip of it here: Instagram

that was pretty neat. I could not help but wonder if you made this thing into a lifelike dog companion,
it would sell just for the doggy part, as an expensive Hammacher Schlemmer toy, not a tool.
However, back to grapes...
Remember, fill it up with grapes for a promo shot! Look, the bounty follows you home...

Just about every major company in my area is looking for employees, and the common lament is you can't get good help.
Part of that now is due to drug testing, but the reality is we are at low unemployment. So if folks can't get enough good help, and want
reliable help anyway...now might be a good time to market this as a long term investment in controlling staff costs and improving reliability.
I see help wanted signs out at the end of your marketing lane, with the owner/grower looking interested at this new idea...
I also see this device in a greenhouse setting loaded with cut lettuce heading down the aisle.

If this doesn't have a remote, perhaps some audible software for at least a stop command if the radar glitches and doesn't
fail in the stop mode as it's supposed to. And it can't wake up in the middle of the night and go for
a ride in the barnyard.

could there be a level switch where it will stop operation if the angle exceeds X?
I made a home made water wagon with a 55 gallon drum like MossRoad talked about and when it's full, even on a good quality JD cart,
you can feel the whole thing wanting to lean if I get close to a ditch. Otherwise I live on very flat land and the water wagon works great.
And a water wagon which followed you as you watered things not under irrigation might be a neat application.

There's always the issue of how much do you have to overdesign something to make up for improper/unsafe operation. And if it does get stuck, or turn over, or
suffer some upset, being all electric, and likely agm or lithium batteries, it should be exceptionally durable.
You can put a lot of safety nannies on a cart like this, a weight sensor under the bottom that stops operation if payload weight exceeds X.

 

[candersen10]

that was pretty neat. I could not help but wonder if you made this thing into a lifelike dog companion,
it would sell just for the doggy part, as an expensive Hammacher Schlemmer toy, not a tool.
However, back to grapes...
Remember, fill it up with grapes for a promo shot! Look, the bounty follows you home...

Just about every major company in my area is looking for employees, and the common lament is you can't get good help.
Part of that now is due to drug testing, but the reality is we are at low unemployment. So if folks can't get enough good help, and want
reliable help anyway...now might be a good time to market this as a long term investment in controlling staff costs and improving reliability.
I see help wanted signs out at the end of your marketing lane, with the owner/grower looking interested at this new idea...
I also see this device in a greenhouse setting loaded with cut lettuce heading down the aisle.

If this doesn't have a remote, perhaps some audible software for at least a stop command if the radar glitches and doesn't
fail in the stop mode as it's supposed to. And it can't wake up in the middle of the night and go for
a ride in the barnyard.

could there be a level switch where it will stop operation if the angle exceeds X?
I made a home made water wagon with a 55 gallon drum like MossRoad talked about and when it's full, even on a good quality JD cart,
you can feel the whole thing wanting to lean if I get close to a ditch. Otherwise I live on very flat land and the water wagon works great.
And a water wagon which followed you as you watered things not under irrigation might be a neat application.

There's always the issue of how much do you have to overdesign something to make up for improper/unsafe operation. And if it does get stuck, or turn over, or
suffer some upset, being all electric, and likely agm or lithium batteries, it should be exceptionally durable.
You can put a lot of safety nannies on a cart like this, a weight sensor under the bottom that stops operation if payload weight exceeds X.

Daugen,

Thanks for the thoughts and tips! We think we can fix a lot of the unsafe stuff and mechanical shortcomings - the key is getting the robotic part to work and at a price that actually creates value for people...

Here, finally, is a good video of our idea and team. Welcome any feedback (the good, and the bad especially!).

Thanks!

 

[daugen]

Excellent!

 

[candersen10]

Excellent!

We are now working on fundraising, and running pilots with people picking a lot of crops or in other applications where they people are wasting time doing work, then moving around 50-150 pounds of what they have worked on, from place to place. With our concept, you can just send the cart back to a collection point as you keep working.

Also, you mentioned the point about tipping over. We have an IMU sensor which measures roll/yaw/pitch and can do this (shut down/stop if the slope becomes too great).

Can anyone imagine uses? Thus far we are planning to focus first on hand picked fruits (permanent rows, narrowest vineyard tractors like the Deere 5075GV) go down to about 43 inches, so anything beneath about 50 inch row spacing can't really be machine shuttled off the field, rising labor rates, a lot of time wasted running stuff back and forth. Looking for feedback/advice on the pros/cons of this or other areas we should think about.

Thanks!