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Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP

   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #41  
It happened to another member on TBN where a rod was bent. Think if just one cylinder had oil in it and it was near the bottom of its stroke, then the engine has some momentum from the starter by the time the cylinder gets to TDC. I hope thats not what happened.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP
  • Thread Starter
#42  
Ok so other then taking it to the shop for a compression check, what is the easiest way to find out if there is a bent rod? I appreciate all the input and if no other positives came out of this experience. I have learned a lot about my tractor and look forward to learning more.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #44  
Ok so other then taking it to the shop for a compression check, what is the easiest way to find out if there is a bent rod? I appreciate all the input and if no other positives came out of this experience. I have learned a lot about my tractor and look forward to learning more.

The case I described was an older engine and it was the push rod that actuated the valves via the lifter that was bent. In your case it's probably a piston rod like the picture in the link doge man mentioned. Depending on what cylinder it is, you could drop the oil pan and look up and see the crankshaft and piston rods. If you have glow plugs, you can remove them to relieve the compression and have someone turn the engine over by hand (usually by a bolt on the crank) and watch the pistons go up/down and hopefully see enough of the rod to determine if it is OK. If you did this then you're talking about an oil change and maybe a gasket for the oil pan.

You can buy diesel compression test kits at places like Harbor Freight, I think Northern has one etc., just depends on how deep you want to get. Would be nice if you could determine the problem then you could direct the shop to the problem.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP
  • Thread Starter
#45  
Well ****, there goes another $40 cause I just changed the oil. A buddy of mine said maybe the fuel filter got plugged by debris from being on its side so I think I'll start there then pull the pan and see if I can spot a bent rod.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #46  
Well ****, there goes another $40 cause I just changed the oil. A buddy of mine said maybe the fuel filter got plugged by debris from being on its side so I think I'll start there then pull the pan and see if I can spot a bent rod.

... well, I guess if your're clean you could drain and reuse it ... but at this point $40 is probably the least of your worries I'm sorry to say.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #47  
IF (big if) you can actually see any part of the top of the pistons through either the injector holes or glow plug holes, you can simply turn the engine over slowly by hand while watching each piston at the top of its stroke. If a connecting rod is bent, the piston in that cylinder will not rise as high at the top of the stroke. Shouldn't cost anything but the time to check this way.

Even if you can't actually see the piston tops, you can sometimes use a piece of soft material (wooden dowel, soft solid copper wire) down into the cylinder to "measure" the top of stroke, but this will require being very careful to have your measurer placed exactly the same in each cylinder and then some marking/measuring to see if they are exactly the same.

- Jay
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #48  
IF (big if) you can actually see any part of the top of the pistons through either the injector holes or glow plug holes, you can simply turn the engine over slowly by hand while watching each piston at the top of its stroke. If a connecting rod is bent, the piston in that cylinder will not rise as high at the top of the stroke. Shouldn't cost anything but the time to check this way.

Even if you can't actually see the piston tops, you can sometimes use a piece of soft material (wooden dowel, soft solid copper wire) down into the cylinder to "measure" the top of stroke, but this will require being very careful to have your measurer placed exactly the same in each cylinder and then some marking/measuring to see if they are exactly the same.

- Jay

That's a good idea ... or get you one of these:
Digital Inspection Camera

*Edit: You need to use this opportunity with you're wife to justify some cool new tools!
 
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   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #49  
Well it's been over two weeks now. Is there any new news on this? I would really like to know what was found!
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #50  
A couple of thoughts-- Unless a cylinder fired when you first turned it over the rod is probably not bent. I don't think a starter ever bends a connecting rod. If the rod were bent (and you say it runs but at about 75% power level) it would make a heck of a noise. If it seems to run OK but at a poor power output level I think you just disabled one of the cylinders somehow. Since you had the injectors loose, probably one of them is fouled up/needs bleeding.

Do let us know the outcome.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #51  
I've been wondering about this post also.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #54  
A couple of thoughts-- Unless a cylinder fired when you first turned it over the rod is probably not bent. I don't think a starter ever bends a connecting rod. If the rod were bent (and you say it runs but at about 75% power level) it would make a heck of a noise.
Do let us know the outcome.


Starters will bend rods, and quite easily. As mentioned if the piston is at or near BDC, and has oil in it (even a small amount on these tiny little engines), and the operator hits the key, the inertia of the crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, everything....will help "keep it rotating" in such a way that it'll easily, and almost effortlessly, bend rod(s). I have done it, on this exact same tractor, and another (M5040HD), both times I didn't even know it. The symptoms were low power, fuel smoke, and if you kill the fuel (remove wire from stop solenoid) and crank it, you'll hear one cylinder compressing less than the others, unless all 3 or 4 are bent, and if that's the case usually it will not run at all. No other noises, no knocking, nothing. Just a little smoke and low power. The 5040 even cleared the smoke up after it got hot. Had just enough compression to run, but only when hot.

Only time I've seen one make noise with a bent rod was on an RTV1100 that had one rod bent so severely that it was contacting the cylinder wall. And yes, it was quite noisy.

Keep in mind that Kubota uses a gear reduction starter, then the large gear reduction between the starter's gear and the flywheel. So there is a LOT of torque. Most engines built within the last 10-15 years are gear reduction starters. Gone are the days when direct driven starters were around, they were weak enough that if fluid was on top of the pistons normally it didn't generate enough torque to bend the connecting rod.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #55  
OK, I take your word for all that. My experience with bent connecting rods is a Chevy V-8 and it made one heck of a noise. Also with starters that were not reduction geared. In some ways all starters (cars at least) are geared down quite a bit in that they have a tiny starter motor drive gear engaged with a large flywheel perimeter gear. We still haven't heard back from this fellow since 8/25/15 so we are kind of humming a tune to each other -- be nice if he would let us know what happened.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP
  • Thread Starter
#56  
OK guys sorry I kept you in suspense for so long. I ran the tractor for approximately 20 hours on three cylinders because I didn't have time to put it in the shop. I started it up on the morning I was going to take it in to the shop. I left it idling while I went and hooked up to the trailer. when I came back it had dumped a bunch of fuel into the oil pan and puked a bunch of fuel/oil out of the exhaust. I winched her on the trailer got it to the shop took all the injectors out and went and had them tested. One was stuck closed. I suspected I blew some rings so I bought a compression tester and none of the fittings wood fit in the glow plug or injector holes. So I took the head off took the oil pan off and pulled all the Pistons no broke rings. Put it all back together got it started and it ran for 10 minutes and then got a bunch of fuel in the oil in the pan again. The kubota service man said it was most likely the fuel pump was letting fuel passed into the oil. Spent another hundred dollars on a new pump after spending close to 700 on rings connecting rod bearings and a head gasket got the new pump put on tonight. I got it started up and it did the same thing. The Kubota man said The only possibility left is The injector pump. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #57  
You need a new Kubota man !
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #58  
He is right with the injector pump. You started your trouble shooting from the wrong end. You want to do the easy stuff first, send the pump out and have it rebuilt don't buy a new one.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #59  
You need a new Kubota man !

I agree. Get a second opinion ! I do not understand how a fuel pump puts fuel in an oil pan no matter what is wrong with it. My advice is do not do anything with the injection pump until someone gives you a credible explanation as to how it could put fuel in your oil pan.
 
   / Rolled my kubota 7800... Now it wont turn over. Please HELP #60  
A manual fuel pump has a diaphragm and it springs a leak fuel goes into the crankcase, also the injection pump has seals and if one goes bad the same thing.
 

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