Root Grapple vs Rock Grapple Help

[TractorGuy]

In my opinion a root rake would have the short curved tines. Not either of the flat bottom designs you pictured. If you want to rip roots get a 3pt root rake. Tractor loaders are not made for the stresses required for root ripping.

I have the MTL RK5 rock/root grapple. Like any other implement it has a learning curve and pluses and minuses. I like the solid back design. It protects the grill of the tractor without adding anything to the grill guard and is also useful for some grading. I think it is the second picture you posted.

It is built very strong and weighs about 550 lbs for the 60" version. I don't think you would bend or break it with your tractor.

The close together tines will hold smaller debris and rocks but they also capture loose wet dirt. If the ground is wet it isn't that easy to shake the dirt out. I have to raise it up and roll it back and forth to try and leave the dirt behind. It doesn't always clear.

Like was mentioned above to pick up logs or piles it works best to roll it forward and come down from the top before clamping.

 

[oosik]

You find the tines are spaced too wide to pick it all up. A temporary/one time fix. Stretch heavy gauge chicken wire across the tines. Wire them down to the outside tine on each side. This will allow you to get even the fine stuff.

 

[jjp8182]

Just to offer a slightly different perspective: I've actually found that if I can push it over or drive over it the ripper shanks on a box blade tend to do a much better job of ripping out small trees, brush, roots and large rocks than my grapple does (even though it can do a pretty good job itself) .... the box blade also does a good job dragging vegetation into windrows-like lines for more effective pick up with the grapple.

As oosik noted there are ways to work around the tines being too widely spaced as a short-term/temporary solution, but with tightly spaced tines they will be adding extra weight forever more. So it might be worth considering what you'll need/want the grapple for long term as well as for the near term. Also on that note it might be worth checking to see if any equipment rental places in your area have a rock bucket that could be rented at a reasonable rate - may allow you to have both a grapple and a rock bucket to use without having to buy both (or buy a grapple for the near term that is a compromise for the long term).

Of course depending on what sort of brush removal you need to do, something like a post-puller or Danuser Intimdator might be of use. Those kinds of grapples are great for ripping out individual trees/bushes/rocks, but not so great for grabbing piles of material (I currently have both the L-bottom kind and an Intimidator and find the two types compliment each other rather well -- especially when combined with a box blade).

Anyway just a couple thoughts, ultimately you're the one making the purchase and will have a better idea of the tasks you'll need to accomplish.

 

[StAngerSandman]

I have enough of a rock problem in enough places that renting a rock bucket probably isn't a great solution. Feel like I'm going to be fighting this issue often enough that I need something permanent, and available when I have the time... I priced out rock buckets, and they seem to start at $650 MINIMUM, and for the size I would want, probably $750. Given that, I think buying the RK5 for not much more, and getting the grapple functionality ALONG with the rock bucket for a minimal increase in costs seems to make sense... If I decide for some reason I really need a root grapple because this doesn't do the jobs I need, I will deal with that later. For now, I think getting the rock issue solved and having some type of grapple will take me light years from where I am now.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

Sandman

 

[oosik]

View attachment 641220View attachment 641221 All the land out here started as Government issued 360 acre homesteads. The homestead adjoining my North property cleared many, many fields. There are literally miles of these low rock walls. They are six to eight feet wide and about three feet high. I'm told the neighbor had, at least, two rock sleds and two mule teams. It was also recorded that he had five sons. Fairly obvious what these sons did in their youth.

 

[TractorGuy]

I have enough of a rock problem in enough places that renting a rock bucket probably isn't a great solution. Feel like I'm going to be fighting this issue often enough that I need something permanent, and available when I have the time... I priced out rock buckets, and they seem to start at $650 MINIMUM, and for the size I would want, probably $750. Given that, I think buying the RK5 for not much more, and getting the grapple functionality ALONG with the rock bucket for a minimal increase in costs seems to make sense... If I decide for some reason I really need a root grapple because this doesn't do the jobs I need, I will deal with that later. For now, I think getting the rock issue solved and having some type of grapple will take me light years from where I am now.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

Sandman

At one point I considered buying their smaller single lid grapple and welding or bolting some 3/4" expanded metal to it for dirt sifting. I would have likely just ended up with a glob of dirt I couldn't sift though. I re-floored a utility trailer with expanded metal and have used it to sift somewhat. I just dump a load on top then rake it back and forth using a garden rake upside down. The soil underneath is nice and fine.

Even the spacing on the RK5 lets the smaller debris get through. Especially when you try to shake the dirt out. Just a reminder that none are a perfect solution. I think the spacing is 5" so your 4" rocks are gonna fall through if you try to sift the dirt out it collects.

You may find you need a portable sifter which is something I want to build someday. Built ones are out of my budget for something that is more of a want than need. In my case I am not dealing with rocks so my escaped debris will eventually rot.

 

[WoodDuck]

Soil type in your area would weigh in on my decision of tine spacing also. In sandy or loose soil that sifted more readily, narrower tines would catch more rock and debris, while still separating the soil easily. In clay or hard-packed soil, I'd rather have wider spacing myself. Scoop up a load of wet clay and rocks with narrow tines, and you can shake your machine to pieces for several minutes and still have a bunch of dirt with the rocks in the grapple/bucket. (Obviously soil moisture content of the work site makes a huge difference.) I would speak with other owner/operators in your geographic area, and see what they think works best for most conditions. Doing my research and learning from other peoples' mistakes has saved me a lot of $$$ over the years. Getting what you need the first time is usually cheaper in the long run than buying/selling/swapping your way into the correct implement. Best of luck!

 

[oosik]

Good advice - WoodDuck. My grapple has 6" tine spacing. I move soil - fully open jaws - straight down on the ground - apply down force and close grapple. I come up with a VERY large wad of soil and take it wherever needed. I seldom lose anything - ie, fallout thru the tines. I always have to hose out the soil between the tines when I've completed the job. My soil has a high organic content.

If you can find others with grapples - ask why they chose the type they have.

 

[rScotty]

I have enough of a rock problem in enough places that renting a rock bucket probably isn't a great solution. Feel like I'm going to be fighting this issue often enough that I need something permanent, and available when I have the time... I priced out rock buckets, and they seem to start at $650 MINIMUM, and for the size I would want, probably $750. Given that, I think buying the RK5 for not much more, and getting the grapple functionality ALONG with the rock bucket for a minimal increase in costs seems to make sense... If I decide for some reason I really need a root grapple because this doesn't do the jobs I need, I will deal with that later. For now, I think getting the rock issue solved and having some type of grapple will take me light years from where I am now.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

Sandman

Sandman, it sounds like you have pretty much talked yourself into a grapple, but keep in mind that there are other solutions.
I found the same thing that jjp8182 did, that I got the best results by using the 4 or 5 ripper shanks of the box blade to tear up the ground and expose the rocks and roots. Then followed with a regular rock bucket to pick them up while leaving the dirt behind.

In doing that work, I can't think of any time when a grapple would have been an advantage. It doesn't have the power of pulling a box blade, nor does the grapple have the narrow tines of a rock bucket.
BTW, it's usually better not to go with a real wide bucket. Even for narrow ones, a good rock bucket can cost upwards to $1500/1800 in the width you are thinking. Bradco and Hough make some of the better more expensive good ones with round tines. There are less expensive rock buckets that use narrow flat tines and cost much less and don't work as well. We have one of each and have used them for year. Here's a photo showing us doing some work with one of the less expensive buckets - I think it cost $700.

We've also got the big Bradco bucket with round tines, which has 1" less spacing between tines. Believe it or not, that 1" makes a noticible difference, as does the extra foot that the front of the bucket sticks out. That's because you use a rock bucket by picking up rocks and roots on the front one foot of the bucket and then tilting the bucket up so that the rocks roll to the back and the dirt falls thought. Once you get enough rocks in the bucket that new rocks can't roll back then the bucket is essentially full. Like the one in the photo. It's full. You rarely get it that full & that's why I took the picture. Bouncing the bucket is how you get it that full, but it's hard on the loader & bucket.

BTW, I'd always rent before buying. Otherwise you are just guessing. Some rental yards will deduct the rental fee if you end up buying the implement. Agree on a price first though.
Luck,
rScotty

 

[TomIre]

In my opinion a root rake would have the short curved tines. Not either of the flat bottom designs you pictured. If you want to rip roots get a 3pt root rake. Tractor loaders are not made for the stresses required for root ripping.

I have the MTL RK5 rock/root grapple. Like any other implement it has a learning curve and pluses and minuses. I like the solid back design. It protects the grill of the tractor without adding anything to the grill guard and is also useful for some grading. I think it is the second picture you posted.

The close together tines will hold smaller debris and rocks but they also capture loose wet dirt. If the ground is wet it isn't that easy to shake the dirt out. I have to raise it up and roll it back and forth to try and leave the dirt behind. It doesn't always clear.

Like was mentioned above to pick up logs or piles it works best to roll it forward and come down from the top before clamping.

Here's my question on the solid back design. Does it allow you to see a rock OK and can you then pick an individual rock? Or, are you running the tines along the ground and picking up everything in front of you?
Ideally, I would like to pick up an individual rock and place it pretty accurately where I want it. That's probably the primary use I have and second would be picking up brush piles, limbs and logs. A distant third would be clearing brush but I have a tooth bar for my bucket for that.