Root Grapple vs Rock Grapple Help
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I find with more tines you end up pushing out a lot more soil along with the roots. If your plan is to push out trees and shrubs from grassy areas fewer tines makes less of a mess. If you plan on mainly picking a lot of small stones from a cultivated field get more tines.
TomIre
Gold Member
Thanks to both for taking the time to reply but I wasn't really asking about proficiency or number of tines.
I probably wasn't clear. The MTL RK5 has a solid back piece and it is that solid piece that makes me ask about visibility. Seems to me it would obstruct your view and make it harder to single out and pick up a single rock.
I probably wasn't clear. The MTL RK5 has a solid back piece and it is that solid piece that makes me ask about visibility. Seems to me it would obstruct your view and make it harder to single out and pick up a single rock.
rScotty
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I don't know about the MTL RK5, but I've got a couple of rock buckets with open backs. You can see them post #19. I can't see a single rock well enough to pick it up with either one. It's not the back of the bucket that gets in the way, it's the loader crossbar and the bucket top bar plus the hood of the tractor. By standing up and leaning to one side I can just see well enough so that I can get close enough to get off the tractor and go wrestle a big rock into the bucket. Reverse the process to put it into place on the rock wall.
Maybe a pickup grapple would work better.... maybe not. It sure wouldn't be as good for stacking the rock as a bucket. With the bucket flat and at the right level I can rotate the rock by hand and slide it off the bucket into position. A grapple would just be in the way for stacking the rock most of the time. It might work for picking up the rock, but then what do you do?
What would really be nice would be some sort of hydraulic "push-off" built into the bucket that would slide the rock forward out of the bucket. Then I could get the rock spun around to fit, level the bucket, and use the hydraulic push to slide the rock into position. That would really work nice for making rock walls.
rScotty
jjp8182
Platinum Member
Depends on how you are using it and have positioned the grapple.
Most of the time when I'm looking to pick up a single object I'll have the grapple tilted to the point I can see through the bottom of the grapple. That also allows me to use the ground as a backstop to keep the object from trying to slide away as the grapple lid closes -- in fact most of the time when I'm grabbing something with the grapple I'm coming in from the top so that the lid hinge point is vertically over the object/pile for that reason.
Whereas if I'm using it as a rake to clean up an area the bottom will be sitting closer to level (tilted about 15°-30° above flat) in order to get a pushing/rolling action with what I'm raking into a pile. In that case being able to see through the back can be a bit more helpful -- especially on uneven ground (when raking debris sitting on the ground I'll try to keep the tips out of the ground).
TomIre
Gold Member
Yeah, I may be looking for a unicorn! I know there is a three claw attachment for an excavator that lets you securely pick something up (like an arcade claw machune).
Haven't pulled the trigger yet but right now I'm heavily leaning towards an MTL foot grapple as the best inexpensive, all round tool.
Compact Tractor 48"-54"-6 " HD Root Grapple Hydraulic - quick attach — MTL Attachments
TractorGuy
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One problem with the RK5 is the clamp tines do not intersect with the tips of the bottom tines when closed. At full close they are a few inches behind the bottom rakes. The RK5 also has a big void in the center so picking up a single rock isn't going to happen.
I use mine to pick up bunches of limbs and logs so it works for me. The best way I've found to pick stuff up is to roll the grapple forward over the pile as I move forward. Once the grapple is fully inverted the clamping tines will move almost level with the ground and bunch the load into the grapple. The way I have to use it the solid back doesn't not block my view. I also use it to get a primary grade and push it forward flat on the ground. This is where the solid back offers protection and the back design assists in grading and leveling the surface.
For picking up a single rock of any size I think you would be better off with a single lid grapple to balance the weight in the center of your loader. No matter what type grapple you buy you will probably have to roll it at least 90* to the ground to pick stuff up. This means you are looking through the bottom tines and not the back as you approach your load.
I don't know if the perfect grapple for all instances exists. I may modify my RK5 one day. I think I would have been just as or more happy with the single lid root grapple. Grapple functionality also varies with how damp the soil is. Mine was doing just what I wanted back when the ground was dry and dusty except I was eating dust. Now that it's wet the dirt will just cling to the load.
I don't know how it would work but if I were starting over I would buy the less expensive single lid root grapple and add some expanded metal to the bottom to catch the small stuff.
TomIre
Gold Member
I literally just saw that on the RK 5. And, I think you're right - always going to be compromises. But, there are lots of grapples out there. I'll keep looking.
This one looks good. Top overlaps the bottom tines and closer spacing on the top tines.
#15 48" E-series Grapple | MS Attachments
TractorGuy
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Hmmm. Well. I could be mistaken, but. I feel a root rake should have a rounded profile to the bottom ribs and the ribs running up somewhat form a circular side profile. With a top clamp/grapple in the half open/closed position it forms a circle a large log would fill.
The rounded profile allows for you to enter the ground tipped out and engage the teeth into the earth and forward and down pressure finds depth(and the roots, then forward and curling up rides the curve of the tines and up pressures uses all the torque and HP, and weight of machine, to rip THROUGH the root ball.
I say this, when I look at huge land clearing rakes, ( on crawlers or wheel loaders) that don't even have a grapple on top, they are using the rounded profile to levarge stumps, and they are only aiming to stack the debris for burning anyway, though they can and do lift and load without the grapple.
Rock buckets being flat, I use it more like a planer blade, that chisel shape lets me find the rock, get under it, and roll it up to the surface and sift the dirt off it until I can get it far enough back in the bucket that I have it when I curl it out of the ground. So the Flat bottom is good for that. The Flat bottom is also good ish to round up piles of tree debris..... I don't particularly need a grapple, and it can actually be inn the way if I want to back drag the holes I just created.
My root rake was made by Millonzi and is only 48" wide with six tines and I use it on my ASV RC-30. Raking tree roots is difficult, because I am engaging the whole width, when much of the time I only really want to engage 12".
Which is my real advice. Time working and how hard it can be on a machine should be a decision point. I clear very selectively so compact machinery is my need. I need to keep the trees 8" or bigger, ( and 20-30" specimens) but they are surrounded by juvenile trees 6" down to 3", and the roots wind up intertwined- and engage a full width means I'm into and fighting bigger roots I want to keep. I can usually push on the target tree to loosen/SEE the roots of the target, then focus an edge tine on just those three roots, maneuvering with a CTL is the only way. I would not use a Tractor FEL, Its sure way to break lots of stuff..... Not to mention falling limbs....
I really want a root bucket for my ASV RC-30, such as EA makes that is a single angled pointed bucket, but I have been bleeding money lately, and it isn't in the budget. Beinng a very small engagement point nd right int the middle, it will be easier on my machine.
My own land is an Oak Hammock. 0-1' is peat/duff, 2'-4 feet will be a gray clayey sand (very Sticky and will have roots) then the 3-5' layer might be white clayey sand which is very clean and a real nice consistent stickiness, then I hit the limestone boulderized layer that can be 3-4 thick. Below the limestone boulder layer is going to be either a coquina shelf or coquina shell, and sand.
There can be Limestone/Fossilized Coral on the surface to any depth.... I fetch them out one day and let them sit to let rainwater wash off the sticky clay dirt, or just dry off and retrieve later with the grapple... When digging in a hole and claiming the fill I separate/stockpile, once I hit the limestone in a layer, I move on. I can break through it with an Excavator or electric jack hammer if needed, but the water table has to be down. We are in drought now, so a five foot deep excavation is still dry and I am on the rock layer, water assuredely is right below this. IN normal conditions, I will have water in the hole, then I lose traction...…
The rounded profile allows for you to enter the ground tipped out and engage the teeth into the earth and forward and down pressure finds depth(and the roots, then forward and curling up rides the curve of the tines and up pressures uses all the torque and HP, and weight of machine, to rip THROUGH the root ball.
I say this, when I look at huge land clearing rakes, ( on crawlers or wheel loaders) that don't even have a grapple on top, they are using the rounded profile to levarge stumps, and they are only aiming to stack the debris for burning anyway, though they can and do lift and load without the grapple.
Rock buckets being flat, I use it more like a planer blade, that chisel shape lets me find the rock, get under it, and roll it up to the surface and sift the dirt off it until I can get it far enough back in the bucket that I have it when I curl it out of the ground. So the Flat bottom is good for that. The Flat bottom is also good ish to round up piles of tree debris..... I don't particularly need a grapple, and it can actually be inn the way if I want to back drag the holes I just created.
My root rake was made by Millonzi and is only 48" wide with six tines and I use it on my ASV RC-30. Raking tree roots is difficult, because I am engaging the whole width, when much of the time I only really want to engage 12".
Which is my real advice. Time working and how hard it can be on a machine should be a decision point. I clear very selectively so compact machinery is my need. I need to keep the trees 8" or bigger, ( and 20-30" specimens) but they are surrounded by juvenile trees 6" down to 3", and the roots wind up intertwined- and engage a full width means I'm into and fighting bigger roots I want to keep. I can usually push on the target tree to loosen/SEE the roots of the target, then focus an edge tine on just those three roots, maneuvering with a CTL is the only way. I would not use a Tractor FEL, Its sure way to break lots of stuff..... Not to mention falling limbs....
I really want a root bucket for my ASV RC-30, such as EA makes that is a single angled pointed bucket, but I have been bleeding money lately, and it isn't in the budget. Beinng a very small engagement point nd right int the middle, it will be easier on my machine.
My own land is an Oak Hammock. 0-1' is peat/duff, 2'-4 feet will be a gray clayey sand (very Sticky and will have roots) then the 3-5' layer might be white clayey sand which is very clean and a real nice consistent stickiness, then I hit the limestone boulderized layer that can be 3-4 thick. Below the limestone boulder layer is going to be either a coquina shelf or coquina shell, and sand.
There can be Limestone/Fossilized Coral on the surface to any depth.... I fetch them out one day and let them sit to let rainwater wash off the sticky clay dirt, or just dry off and retrieve later with the grapple... When digging in a hole and claiming the fill I separate/stockpile, once I hit the limestone in a layer, I move on. I can break through it with an Excavator or electric jack hammer if needed, but the water table has to be down. We are in drought now, so a five foot deep excavation is still dry and I am on the rock layer, water assuredely is right below this. IN normal conditions, I will have water in the hole, then I lose traction...…
