row crop spacing?

bdog · May 29, 2005

I just traded for a 2 row lister (3 15" furrowers on a 2" diamond toolbar), and a 2 row planter. Most of the farmers around here use 40" rows and the lister and planter are set up for 40" rows.

Problem is my tractor tires are 48" on center. There is some adjustment on the width, but for the other things I do, and the difficulty of adjusting the width, they are going to stay at 48". I could not set them to 40" or 80" even if I wanted to.

I am a newbie to this but with a 48" tire spacing I am limited to either a 48" or 24" row spacing - correct? I mean if I list the field with 40" rows, then when I go to plant the tractor tires are not going to be in the row bottoms.

From what I have read on the internet most people use 30-40" rows. To me 24" seems too narrow and 48" too wide. What would you recommend I use? I am mainly going to be planting sweet corn, and other vegetables for home gardens, but some of these may be 2-3 acres.

beenthere · May 29, 2005

( What would you recommend I use? )

I would pick up another tractor that will cultivate the 40" rows. The one you have will get you through the soil work-up phase, and maybe even the planting. After that, cultivating will need to be done with the right row-crop spacing.
If you go with 24" rows, you will likely have to get narrower tires for your "48" tractor to fit between the 24" rows.
These CUTs weren't designed for row crops, seems like.

bdog · May 29, 2005

I measured and my tires are exactly 12" wide. So from inside to inside of my tires is 36", outside to outside is 60". So I guess technically I could fit between 24" rows, but if I got off by an inch or two I would damge the rows. So it seems that 48" rows are my only option?

RalphVa · May 29, 2005

My 4010 is 48" wide with 12.5" tires. Guess that puts my rows at about 36" wide. Here's a picture of the disc hillers mounted on my diamond bar that I made the rows with.

I do the planting and all the rest by hand because I've an electric fence around the garden and have soaker hoses down every row. Impossible to use the tractor in there after making the rows.

Got my diamond bar set up with 4 chisel plows in the middle and 2 smaller disc hillers for behind the wheels to maintain the present rows.

Ralph

teddydo · May 29, 2005

I hesitated before writing this because I am fro the old school of mules and middle busters, top harrows, side harrows and the like. Poor farmer from Mississippi that depended on our gardens for the dinner table. I use 36 inch spaced rows. I have a 4330 that I brak and disk my ground with and a 600 ford widened out to make up the rows with. I have two middle busters set 6 foot apart, I make a pass and then straddle a furrow to get the exact 36 inch row. After making the rows then I harrow off the tope with my section harrow. Cultivate with two row cultivators. On the last plowing I use the middle buster lightly again. Like I said earlier we depend on these peas on corn as well as other vegtables for our meals. Not only is it cheaper to grow and put up it's much more tasty than the bought stuff. I know their is an easier way but I still like my raised beds with the middlebusters. It is also much easier to keep clean, the middles provide a place to work the grass to. Luck be yours and I agree than you really need a tractor to set up as you like and leave it that way.....teddy

Charolais · May 30, 2005

Back when we still raised tobacco we used 140 Farmalls. We set those up for 44" rows. The tobacco had plenty of room to grow and it also assured there was enough dirt to keep adding to the bed up to lay by time. It was pretty much the standard for this area. Before the Farmalls we used 135 MF to list the beds up and used mules to cultivate the crop. It was still 44" then. I got out of tobacco in 79 so I don't know what the 2 and 4 row outfits were spaced at.

Even when we planted corn we used those Farmalls and used 44" rows. Worked the same for gardens too.

Indydirtfarmer · May 30, 2005

All depends on WHAT you're trying to grow....

40" rows went the way of the Pony Express Rider around here YEARS ago, for corn planting anyway... 30" is the favored way now, wit 20" making some headway.

For years, soybeans were planted as a "solid stand" crop. (drilled in 7" to 11" rows) In the early 50's, soybeand went to 40", then 30" rows, planted with a corn planter. Then no-tilling caught on....The easiest way to plant was with a drill. Also, you get a "crop canopy" quicker with drilled beans, and that helps with weed competition. Now, with the advent of Asian Rust in the U.S., "wide-row" beans are making a comeback. Sunlight can penetrate the canopy, helping to combat fungal outbreaks. Also, sprayers can get to the underside of plant leaves better when beans are planted in wide rows.

To simplify life, I'm making a switch next growing season to 20" rows for both corn AND soybeans. That will give me the best of both worlds, and will eliminate the need for TWO planters rolling in the spring. (I'll still hang on to my JD 750 15' drill for wheat and planting hayfields)

All this may or may NOT answer the original question. It may just add MORE confusion....

I'd tend to set rows to match the tractor if it's difficult to change width. Corn can do quite well in 24" rows. So can soybeans, Milo, or a number of other crops. plants needing wider spacing....? Go with the 48" rows.

When you start talking about veggie crops, row width can vary like the weather.

bdog · May 30, 2005

Thanks for the replies. I guess my main concern is more of a logistical one than what is better for the plants. I understand what you are saying on the pros and cons of different spacings. As I stated above this is only going to be for hobby gardens. I have had absolutely zero experience with row crops of any kind.

I would like to be able to make the rows, plant, and then come back and cultivate and or spray at a later time. All of this requires me to drive in the bottoms of the rows. With 12" wide tires, centered on 48", is it feasible to drive in 24" spaced rows without tearing them up? I would prefer 24" over 48" rows, but I am not sure if I can drive down 24" rows or not.

redlevel · May 30, 2005

Although not optimal for "real farming", most vegetable crops such as sweet corn, beans, peas, sweet potatoes, tomatoes, etc. will do very well in 48" row spacing. In fact, some of the crops (tomatoes, in particular) need this much space between the rows.

As I see it, your options are to adjust your planter outfit to plant two rows on 24" centers, or to plant one row on 48" centers. In either case, your tractor will straddle the row(s). Some planter setups are very difficult to set up in the closer row configuration. Cultivation becomes difficult in the narrow row spacings, too.

I plant my garden with a 48 year-old 600 Ford and 50 year-old Covington planters, with the wheels set on 60" centers. This gives me 30" rows. I could narrow the wheels more, but it would make it very difficult to cultivate, given the amount of "play" inherent in the 3 pt. hitch of a nearly 50 y/o tractor.

The standard around here for row crops (cotton, peanuts, corn, soybeans, etc.) is 36" rows. The reason I use the 30" spacing is so that I don't have to narrow the wheels for land prep (2-bottom plow) and then widen them for planting and cultivation.

To properly space your planters for 24" rows: find the center-point on your cultivator or tool bar, then measure 12" in each direction and secure your planters there. This is assuming your tires measure 48" center to center. For 48" rows, just put the planter on the midpoint of whatever carries the planter. If I were in your situation, I think I would go with the 48" row spacing purely for the simplicity.

By the way, you are not actually driving with the wheels in the "bottom of the rows". Your wheels are running in the "middles". /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dixiedrifter · May 30, 2005

Unfortunatley I was in the same boat with my Kubota, cept mine is just a lil bit bigger, an M9000.

Had to spread out the tires, which meant unmounting them, flipping the rims over and putting them back on.

I did this all in a few hours time by myself, and the tires are 18.4 x 32 on the back and 12x24's on the front.

As long as you ain't got fluid in your tires, they should be no problem to spread out.

Spreading your tires out also has another side benifit, less pucker factor when your on a slope.

bdog · May 31, 2005

Indy, or anyone else, With the 20" spacing you are talking about, are you listing the field and then coming back with a planter or do you just plant on flat ground? Are you able to cultivate and drive in the middles with that narrow of a spacing?

Indydirtfarmer · May 31, 2005

Never saw a lister used this far north.... They might be SOMEWHERE, just not around here. We want ground as level as we can get it here.

Another thing to consider.... 80% of our corn, and 90%(+) of our soybeans in this immediate area are no-tilled. No cultivators.... 20" rows would require a steady hand when cultivating, but I don't see why it can't be done. You'd need a tractor with relatively narrow rear tires though. My smallest tractor has 16.9X30's.....

We grow a lot of sweet corn and green beans too. That gets planted in 30" rows with a 2-row planter. That's to make room for cultivating.... (That's about 2 weeks away! Pictures sure to follow)

Bottom line.... No matter what row width you go with, you need to match your equipment to that width. A cultivator for 40" (+) rows would be set up COMPLETELY different than one for 30". (More shanks per row) 20" would require yet another totally different set-up.

This is why I use full-sized row-crop or row-crop utility tractors.... Compacts do not lend themselves to row-crop farming nearly so well.

Everything has its place......

bdog · May 31, 2005

Thanks for the reply. I totally agree there is the right and wrong equipment for the job, and our compacts are not designed for row crops, or commercial farming in any sense as they are just too small. I like doing this stuff as a hobby and trying to make things work. Maybe I have too much time on my hands.

Around here cotton is the number one crop and it is grown in 40" raised bed rows. They also plant a lot of winter wheat, which of course is just drilled in on flat ground. My house is surrounded by large cotton fields and I watch the farmers working their fields, cultivating, spraying, etc. It just seems that the rows make all operations so much easier and more precise.

hobbyfarm · May 31, 2005

( This is why I use full-sized row-crop or row-crop utility tractors.... Compacts do not lend themselves to row-crop farming nearly so well.

Everything has its place...... )

Indydirtfarmer,
Sounds to me like those engineers need to come up with a CUT for row crops. Especially since they aren't making any more offset Farmalls.

bjr · Apr 27, 2010

Okay, I'm responding to a 5 yr old thread, but I find the subject interesting and I just spent the better portion of a month fabricating some wheel spacers to get a 60" tire center for my Chinese semi CUT tractor. I say semi CUT because it's kinda on the large size for a compact. Anyway I'm able to row crop 30" rows with my spaced out wheels now. And this is my first attempt at a row cropping, planting corn for the neighbors. Anyone else built their own wheel spacers? bjr

bp fick · Apr 27, 2010

hobbyfarm said:
( This is why I use full-sized row-crop or row-crop utility tractors.... Compacts do not lend themselves to row-crop farming nearly so well.

Everything has its place...... )

Indydirtfarmer,
Sounds to me like those engineers need to come up with a CUT for row crops. Especially since they aren't making any more offset Farmalls.

Sorry to quote from so many years back, but.....

I also find this subject interesting, as I am a vegetable farmer. There is a narrow orchard tractor that Kubota makes. But, let's face it, with the tobacco base gone and small row croppers rare as hen's teeth, there aren't enough of us to constitute a market for the CUT builders, although in relative size and horse power (more than enough), the modern CUT is roughly equivalent to the small Masseys, Farmalls and such we used to use.

If push came to shove, the regular B2320 or JD2320 is about the closest and one might well be my future tractor for this purpose. Even so, they are still a little low to the ground. BTW, your 30" spacing sounds good.

Reg · Apr 27, 2010

It is "interesting".
What I find "interesting" about it is that compacts are used for small scale farming in countries other than the US, apparently without row spacing issues.

So,,,,,
Maybe, just maybe, some of the "issues" expressed in this thread are a result of trying to mix CUTs with olde tyme small utility tractor implements ?
and/or metric (-:

gasmanlng · Apr 29, 2010

Reg said:
It is "interesting".
What I find "interesting" about it is that compacts are used for small scale farming in countries other than the US, apparently without row spacing issues.

So,,,,,
Maybe, just maybe, some of the "issues" expressed in this thread are a result of trying to mix CUTs with olde tyme small utility tractor implements ?
and/or metric (-:

I puchased a 2005 McCormick GX50 CUT recently. It is 50hp, 4wd with FEL, AG tires. The gx50 is built in Europe and I found it to be really narrow (52" outside to outside of rear tires). I needed a wider stance for hills on my property so I extended tires to 60". I figured they probably were built more as orchard tractors.

6011Artist · May 2, 2010

I have a Yanmar 2200 and have never tried to plant a garden until last year. I have access to a nice established garden spot and tractors so I decided to go for it. I chose the Yanmar over the Ferguson due to it not being as wide, more rows in a small area.

I build all my equipment from older tractor equipment that has been cut down or parts from it built on my frame. Not having any experience, I went with 1 row cultivating. I only have 12 50' rows and can run the tractor over it and be on to something else in 30 min.

I agree that the CUTs will not work well with the older equipment unless you go with 1 row, whether bought as is or built from parts. Having a shop with fabrication tools made it very simple to build up what I needed. No bigger than my garden is, it is not time consuming with the tractor, and converting equipment down to my needs is working well for me.

I am in the process of building rolling cultivators now, using two gangs and two middle sweeps. Last year I converted an older C tine mule weeder to do my cultivating and it worked good but I only have 50.00 in all the parts to build a 1 row rig like the big boys use.

Next year I plan to lengthen out my garden, 100' rows. I think I will lay it off with the wider tractor. In case of a breakdown with my narrow tractor, I can use my wider to cultivate. By laying it off with the narrow one, it is the only one I can use to cultivate. There is only 6" difference, so not that big of a difference.

If doing large areas the multi row implements work faster but for the hobby gardener, 1 row should be fast enough. I seem to not plow up a lot of plants this way.

When asking the old timers how to cultivate, several told me you had to get out there and learn it on your own. Told me, "you haven't learned to cultivate until you take out a few rows"...lol.