RS1600A tiller

[longrangelarry]

Perhaps I was foolish but I bought a broken RS1600A for $325, knowing it had a major issue. But used tillers around here are at least $1000 more than that, so I figured I had little to lose. I can scrap it for maybe $100 if I have to. Anyway, the side gear case is busted. As in, two pieces. I can get it welded but the break is at one of the bearing holes and the repair would have to be perfect for the new bearings to fit, wouldn't it? And it won't be cheap. Also, a chunk of the case is missing and any repair has to hold the oil, even if it is not structurally sound (it could be braced, if necessary). I am also having trouble (to say the least) getting the case off, as the bearings are rusted on. Obvious solution is a new or used housing, but where could I get one? Is the case the same as for the narrower models? Surely there are parts tillers out there? Any advice about how to get the housing off? I have whacked on it all I dare (it's cast iron) and pried to boot, and it's only about half off after several hours. FYI can't get a gear puller on the bearings- no room. Any advice appreciated.
Thanks- and please strop laughing!:laughing:

 

[Pete Judd]

Coldwater has bunches of tillers, might give them a call.

 

[longrangelarry]

Thanks Pete. I will try that and post the results.

 

[winston1]

Any pictures might help. Is there a snap ring on the input and output shafts? If so, have they been removed? Does yours look like this Fredrick's drawing? http://fredricksequipment.com/storage/parts-catalog-files/yanmar-parts-catalog/tiller.pdf

 

[longrangelarry]

What's broken is the gear case on the side, which would be in the middle of the exploded drawing you are referring to, and is not numbered because it is not available. It's not the gear box associated with the PTO. This piece is critical because it only only houses the gears but it holds the whole side of the tiller together!

I promise not to get off topic, but I have found a 4 ft 2 point tiller I can get "cheap". Since it's a Yanmar tiller and a Yanmar tractor, won't it fit? I see that instead of a top link, the PTO drive bolts onto the tractor for support. Also, apparently the lift arms connect to the tiller (2 point) and not to the lower arms, as per normal (I forget what all these parts are called). I can get this tiller for a bit more than it would cost to "fix" the 6 footer, even assuming all it takes is an expensive weld and new bearings, which is far from certain. Not to mention all the work!

Thanks for the help.

 

[winston1]

You would be much better off with the 4 footer with your 18 hp tractor. That 1600 is 63" and in my opinion to big for an 18hp. Yes, I think it will fit your tractor.

 

[284 International]

I don't know that the 2 point tiller will fit. I have a pair of Yanmar tillers that both bolt to my YM1401D's PTO housing, but will not mount to my YM186D, even though it has similar bolts around the housing. The dimensions are different. It would be a simple matter to measure any bolts on the rear of your tractor and then see if the tiller shares that same set of dimensions.

 

[longrangelarry]

Not sure if my previous reply posted, but this issue seems fraught with peril. I realize it only has to work out once and I could be set for years, but I'm spooked by already having wasted a bit over $300. I found a couple KKs, even a KK II, in the $1000 range, which is much cheaper than I could find earlier this year, so I probably ought to do the safe thing, even if it hurts. Might even get them down a bit! If I go with a 4 footer we can run it off either tractor (We are managing food plots on adjacent land, sharing implements when possible) . The other tractor is his mid-size JD we were going to mount the 1600 to. Just FYI, my compact did lift that 6 foot sucker off the trailer with a boom pole, so I am sure it could do it directly from the 3 pt. Turning it with 18 hp is another matter!

Thanks for the help. I'll monitor this stream for a while in case a miracle happens.

 

[California]

I have a RS1400, the original tiller sold with YM2000. My YM186D is working pretty hard to turn it. (15 pto hp, 18 engine hp).

In fact I had to add its matched but optional training wheels on the back to control depth. Without them, the YM186D would stall when I would climb out of tilled ground onto firm ground while cross-tilling around my orchard trees, because as the nose climbed the tiller was forced deeper than I had power to till. I don't think you're going to run an RS 1600 with 18 hp.

In fact - I think this might be a case where where putting the broken tiller back on Craigslist is the best way out.

 

[longrangelarry]

As I said, I knew my tractor wouldn't operate the big tiller. We were going to use the JD for that. But perhaps it would need the wheels even to run a typical 4 footer? Something to keep in mind. As for the RS1600 I couldn't in good conscience sell it as anything other than a parts tiller, which I wouldn't think there'd be enough demand to be worth driving very far to buy or sell. (I'd post a picture but it's at my other home, 225 miles away. I only go there a couple times a month.) On the other hand, the scrap yard is about 2 miles away. For parts I don't see how it's worth more than as scrap, although I do have the short PTO shaft and I won' t scrap that. If anyone wants to buy it, it can be accessed in western Ky or the St. Louis area. I'd let it go for a bit more than the scrap value- a little more if I have to haul it back to St. Louis, because of what it does to my gas mileage! I was shocked to find that with that tiller sitting on the very back of the 10x6 trailer, and a counterweight (maybe 200 lb) of bricks in the front, my mileage dropped from almost 20 mpg empty to about 12.5!! Without the tiller and with the gate thrown in the back and not sticking up in the air, I got more like 15 or 16 mpg. Of course it's mostly the gate, so lesson learned there!

Thanks for the advice.

 

[blackd]

I learned that lesson re: the gates the first day I owned a 16' trailer. Picked it up, empty. Went ~120miles miles to pick up metal to make a FEL. At the 1/2 way point I took the gates off and threw the gates into the back of the truck. Mileage went from ~8-9MPG (gates on and up) to ~15-16MPG (gates in the back of the truck.) Truck was a Nissan V6, auto. Usual mileage was in the 16-18MPG range.

BTW, I had a Yannie FX24D with which I used the same tiller. No problem with that ~25HP tractor. Replaced the FX with a smaller MF GC2400, 18.5 HP tractor. Frame wasn't quite big enough for the tiller and would turn the tiller but couldn't keep it high enough. Same experience getting stuck coming out of the tilled garden. I now have a 4' Caroni. Just right for the tractor. BTW, sold the Yannie tiller to a fellow with a bigger IH, and he loves it.

 

[California]

I don't see how it's worth more than as scrap, although I do have the short PTO shaft and I won' t scrap that.

When a set of tines appears on Ebay, the asking price is about equal to a whole tiller. And shipping them wouldn't be difficult/expensive if you use Priority Mail boxes.

Likewise if you have the whole Upper Link Assembly, which is a 'bridge' that bolts to the tractor plus a special short upper link link, that assembly is hard to find and should fetch a good price.

And of course the special tiller pto shaft is worth something.

You might recover most of your cost selling these components on Ebay then scrapping the hulk.

 

[longrangelarry]

Thanks guys. I don't have the special top link or the bridge- this is a true 3 pt and not the 2 pt. The other tiller I was looking at is indeed the 2 pt. so at best it only works on one of the two tractors- mine. Are you saying it would be worth removing the tines to sell? That makes sense now that I think about it. They appear to be the originals, which I understand are more valuable, but how do I tell for sure? They seem to have the rice paddy shape (curved, not L-shaped) and that looks worn even when it is not, but I can't post pictures for about 3 weeks. So if there's a distinctive feature, let me know. The bolts are rusted pretty good but I can work on them when I have time- no rush. That is such a great suggestion I would never have thought of on my own.

I have since found a couple excellent tillers posted near by Ky place at a very reasonable prices. One is listed as a Kubota and the other is a Howard. My management buddy was right in that these things seem to pop up as winter approaches, and prices go down as well.

I have learned so much on this forum, as I did on the Wheel Horse forum a couple years ago when I had one of those. Ultimately I had to give it up too- just too much time demands, and I need to use my tools, not work on them. But these forums are fabulous.

 

[winston1]

First picture is well worn original Yanmar tines. Second picture is the ones available now.

 

[longrangelarry]

Well it's obvious now. I have the original tines, and they are well worn too! About like the ones in your picture. So I guess my work is cut out for me- removing them when I get the time, one or two at a time. Are the nuts important? As I recall they are well rusted. Might get a cutter for them- one of those screw-in jobs that wouldn't mess up the bolt. Or does the bolt matter? If not, it's going to go a lot quicker!
I sure appreciate the effort to take those pictures (even if they weren't just for me) and post them. I will not retire for another few months and I actually can afford the loss on this tiller, but I would feel a whole lot better about the whole thing if I could recover some of the cost. In other words, I wouldn't feel so stupid when I pull up to the recycle center with something I just bought! It wasn't until I really got to working with the thing that I realized the case was an oil bath issue, and that the break went right through a bearing race. I don't think it ever had a chance.

Thanks! I will post pictures when I get them, just for the sake of everyone's curiosity.

 

[California]

Thanks guys. I don't have the special top link or the bridge- this is a true 3 pt and not the 2 pt. The other tiller I was looking at is indeed the 2 pt.

The special upper link component I am calling a 'bridge' is shown in this tiller diagram, and in this photo (copied from someone else).

Note in place of a standard upper link, there is a fixed component bolted to the tractor then a very short special upper link. Yanmar did it this way to change the geometry. Using this, the tiller doesn't get closer to the tires when it lifts, as it would with a standard upper link. This is still a 3-point tiller and attaches in moments like any 3-point implement, in contrast to a 2-point tiller bolted semi-permanently to a tractor that lacks 3-point components.

If you're lucky that special assembly was included with the tiller, and is worth some money.

 

[winston1]

I think the 1600 will have 12mm bolts. Hoye sells the set of bolts, nuts and washers for $20 + shipping. Might shop around and find them cheaper than that. I reused mine when I changed my tines.

 

[longrangelarry]

Thanks again. Winston, I can afford $20- at least until i retire in Jan!

California, I see what you mean. I don't have that fixed piece nor the short top link. No training wheels either. What had me confused was the other tiller I was looking at was the 2 point, with the mount bolted on. All that top piece does is extend the pivot point away from the wheels, whereas on the 2 pt it looks like it is actually substituting for the top link assembly. No matter- I think I know what to do. I will return to my property when deer season opens next month and perhaps in between hunting sessions I will try removing a couple tines. The nuts & bolts are rusty and I think any new owner of the tines would prefer new bolts anyway, so I'll probably cut or grind the bolts off, taking care not to damage the tine, of course. Any suggestions on that? Otherwise, I will stumble onward.

Thanks again.

 

[MN Charlie]

My 1510D came with a 2 point attachment RS1202 tiller. Here are a couple of photos. Sorry that you really can't see the tractor side bracket very well in this photo. It's very much like a shield around the top of the PTO with a couple of ears with holes where the bracket from the tiller attaches.

 

[longrangelarry]

Whoa! I think I better stay away from these things- too confusing! I would not appreciate that if not for all the help. I am currently fishing in Wyoming but when I get back home, shopping for a different tiller will resume. Meanwhile, if anyone wants dibs on tines, they will probably start coming off next month. The short PTO shaft will also be available.