Running water line 900'

[Skerby]

and remember in Hayden's second point on friction considers elbows in the pipe.. basically calculating feet of head..
also, to an earlier post somewhere, pumps dont make pressure, the supply volume, resistance makes pressure... good luck, and if it don't work out, dried flowers are all the rage

 

[TedLaRue]

I just want to support RonMar's post. I think previous posts put too much emphasis on pipe diameter. For low flow, pipe diameter doesn't matter so much. It's the "head" (difference in elevation) that matters.

 

[kenmac]

I was just making a general statment in my post about a larger pipe when ya don't have the pressure. I do agree with Ron that he is only using it for a flower garden . 3/4 should be just fine for that

 

[SCRich]

I replied last night but the message got lost. It's a fact of living in the country, no DSL, no Cable and my cellular signal is weak at best. I maintain the cell tower and have tried everything to tweak the signal but I am just too far away and behind too much forrest to make it happen, at least I can take my internet connection with me when I am on the road (at a tower now) and get my surfing done.

I got to get back to work but I don't know how to tell exactly what the difference is in height between the head end and the garden area. The garden area is roughly 2 acres in size. I can not see that region from the well head due to dense trees and overgrowth but I can see both points from another spot (think triangle) in between that is lower than the start and end point and I am guessing about a 20-30ft difference. I don't have survey equipment and my GPS would not be accurate enough to measure these small changes in elevation. BUT since I work with towers all day long I can be accurate at 50/100/200/500ft and I am guessing if I put a 50ft tower at the base of the valley between the well and the food plot it would probably stick up 20-30ft above the food plot.

The slope from the well to the valley is very gradual then it takes a big dip about 20ft wide (this is a runoff area that is VERY old and has cut away the big dip) then there is a long 100ft steep incline to reach the flat 2 acre food plot area. The final hill can be done in an ATV and tractor and possibly my 4x4 2500HD but since that is a company truck I have never actually tried.

Any ideas on how the difference in altitude can be measured when you can't see both points from either end and don't have survey equipment?

 

[Chuck52]

I noticed that the original poster mentioned that he was having trouble matching his "40 year old" pipe. I recently added some yard hydrants and found that my old poly pipe was an odd size...turns out there is, or was, poly pipe and poly tube, and the specifications differed. I finally managed to get fittings to go from my old tube size to the new pipe sized poly, but they were expensive.

Chuck

 

[RonMar]

Any ideas on how the difference in altitude can be measured when you can't see both points from either end and don't have survey equipment?

Not without some rudementary surveying tools, at least not that I can think of. There is nothing particularly mystical about it. The Romans accomplished some pretty fantastic engineering using sticks, strings and weights/plumb bobs for survey tools. Modern survey tools only make the job faster and a little more precise. I can think of a way using a carpenters level and something to set it on/clamp it to such as a tripod. You will also need some measured sticks to sight out to and make the actual measurements. Basically you work from the top down, or if it is really steep, you may have to work in steps from top down or bottom up. You use the level to establish a level sighting plane. You then have someone hold up a stick at the end point that goes high enough to reach your sight plane. The length of the stick to intersect the sighting plane is the height difference minus the height of the level sight plane above the ground where you are sighting from. This of course can be subject to quite large errors using a regular bubble level. A machinests level would be more accurate(.0005" per ft) Perhaps a more accurate method would be using a string and plumb bob and a square to establish a level sight plane. You can probably rent a basic sight level at your local rental place for not too much. It is basically a machinests level combined with a riflescope and would make this process easier and the sight level would have known maximum errors to make this process a little more precise.

As for your cell coverage issue, have you thought of using a directional yagi antenna at your home? I set up an alternate comms path to a remote site I worked at a few years back. The cellular modem I was provided had issues with our location, so I installed a yagi beam antenna and pointed it at a known cell tower. This gave us a solid signal to call the backup comms path reliable. I would think your cell card should have an external antenna input. This would mean plugging into an antenna and committing yourself to one computer workspace at home, but I imagine most do that anyway and leave the powersupply in place.

 

[tommu56]

A quick way is to use a level stick of a known length (5 ft)and 2 other people.
You stand at garden (low spot) stand stick on ground stick on ground put level on top if it so it looks like an inverted L level the level (1st person) sight (2nd person)out across the top of level to were the sight line hits the ground.
have the other other person (3rd)mark that spot on ground that you are sighting to.
Repeat moving stick to marked location on ground untill you are at spring.

Then from one mark to the other is the same elevation as the stick , repeat till you get to spring total of all the stick lengths added together is elevation difference.

tommu
tommu56

 

[turnkey4099]

I replied last night but the message got lost. It's a fact of living in the country, no DSL, no Cable and my cellular signal is weak at best. I maintain the cell tower and have tried everything to tweak the signal but I am just too far away and behind too much forrest to make it happen, at least I can take my internet connection with me when I am on the road (at a tower now) and get my surfing done.

I got to get back to work but I don't know how to tell exactly what the difference is in height between the head end and the garden area. The garden area is roughly 2 acres in size. I can not see that region from the well head due to dense trees and overgrowth but I can see both points from another spot (think triangle) in between that is lower than the start and end point and I am guessing about a 20-30ft difference. I don't have survey equipment and my GPS would not be accurate enough to measure these small changes in elevation. BUT since I work with towers all day long I can be accurate at 50/100/200/500ft and I am guessing if I put a 50ft tower at the base of the valley between the well and the food plot it would probably stick up 20-30ft above the food plot.

The slope from the well to the valley is very gradual then it takes a big dip about 20ft wide (this is a runoff area that is VERY old and has cut away the big dip) then there is a long 100ft steep incline to reach the flat 2 acre food plot area. The final hill can be done in an ATV and tractor and possibly my 4x4 2500HD but since that is a company truck I have never actually tried.

Any ideas on how the difference in altitude can be measured when you can't see both points from either end and don't have survey equipment?

One way is to run a pipe up there, fill with water and measure teh pressure at the bottom. Convert psi to ft head.
.433 psi = 1ft head.

I would use a 1" or larger pipe but since you would be measuring static pressure, there would be no line friction or fitting friction to consider.

As for the 'big dip' you don't need to consider it in calculations...well other than needing a bit more pipe to go down into it and back up.


Harry K

 

[ByronBob]

Years ago when water came down the road of my home a house was 600 feet from the road. He needed 2 inch pipe. Now i understand this is for flowers but I would go with at least 1 inch and don't reduce it at all until you get to the end.

 

[RonMar]

For 600' the flow needs for a home would need that larger diameter pipe to maintain an adequate pressure at typical flows. That is unless you like getting scalded or froze in the shower when a toilet is flushed, or the dishwasher or washing machine is started For the IP's description of need, 1" would be overkill for a flowerbed/small lawn, unless it could be had for less cost than 3/4". I certainly wouldn't reccomend spending any extra money on 1" over 3/4...

You could put a simple battery powered timer up on the end and have it automatically water several times a week and require no maintenance at all, other than controlling the weeds that are going to love the new consistent moisture level in the soil Most watering systems over water anyway. It is a beter use of the water to apply it slower, or in shorter more frequent intervals, to allow it time to soak into the soil instead of runoff and soak in somewhere else...

Soil and climate not withstanding, they say an average lawn needs somewhere in the neighborhood of 1" of water per week. A 100 SQ/FT area at that rate would need 8.3 CU/FT or around 62 gallons of water per week. That is 30 minutes of run time per week at 2GPM...

I fully agree with larger pipe if the demand was for a domestic water supply, but IMHO, for a garden up by the road, the IP's needs could probably be quite easilly met with a buried 5/8" garden hose... There is no payback in overspeccing the infastructure if there is no planned future expansion.