Running Water Lines

[Alan L.]

Bebster, it is very rare that we have subfreezing temps over a long period of time, but it does happen. I can see where it could be at risk if it stays cold for a long time. Usually it gets above freezing during the day even in the coldest of weather here.

I guess there really is somewhat of a "heat source" , and thats the water itself, which is about 60 degrees year round coming out of the well. Of course that wouldn't be the case unless I run it from time to time.

The pipes from my wellhead down to the ground are wrapped in a similar manner, with a fiberglass cover loosely held in place by gravity. In 5 years it has not frozen, but water does flow through there any time we use water in the house, so I guess thats different.

When very cold weather is expected I wil probably put something over the hydrants for added protection.

 

[GaryQWA]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Gary, I guess I don't quite understand what you are saying about the open discharge. My well produces about 35 GPM I am told, but the pump is only pumping out 25 GPM, so it would seem to me that it would run indefinitely, in fact I have done so for 72 hours straight when the well was first dug, trying to clear it up.

If I run 1.5 inch out to the pond and put a regular 3/4 bib right there, I wonder what kind of GPM I could pump through that regular bib? If I can do 20 or 25 GPM through only about 36" of 3/4 and out the bib, then I won't need the large discharge.

I don't expect to fill the pond by pumping water into it but would hope to mitigate the evaporation somewhat. )</font>

A well recovers at a certain gpm, meaning water runs into it at that rate. The water level comes up to match the height of the water table (static water) level outside the well and the recovery flow stops. Let's say that the static water level is 30' below the yard.

Drop a pump in the water to 300' and turn it on, the water level in the well falls from 30' at the rate the pump DELIVERS water minus the recovery rate; which will lag a bit. If you kept pumping until the level stops falling, that is the pumping level of the well; out take equals in put. Now as the water level falls, the pump works harder because actually, the pump only has to move water from the water level in the well and now there's a lower level of water in the well, say its down to 100'. The pump is moving water from there, not the pump's depth. Recall that the pump rating of 25 gpm is from the depth on the chart, not really, it's total dynamic 'head' actually but play along... so the pump delivers a lot more water from the water level depth in the well than 25 gpm from the 300' depth on the chart. That's a fair representation without getting deep into the technical.

Some of the technical. That 300' depth is based on the total 'head' (stated in head feet) including the pressure you want to operate the system at, say 30/50 psi. It also includes pressure loss due to friction in the tubing and all fittings and elevation to the highest fixture to be served. Now I lift the pump drop pipe up out of the well 2' by disconnecting the pitless adapter, and turn on the pump. The water flows from an open pipe, that's open discharge... The pump is only moving water from the static water level in the well to the top of the drop pipe. I have no more friction or fitting loses or elevation related to the house and plumbing and the pump hums right along, delivering a lot more gpm than it will if I hook it back up to the house plumbing system by reconnecting the pitless adapter in the well.

And once a pump motor is started, it costs next to nothing to keep it running when compared to the start up amp draw which spins electric meters; that's also where most pump wear occurs. So in this case of moving water 350' was it to a pond from a well, the size of the pipe doesn't matter as long as it is not too much smaller than the outlet of the pump bieng used. Most pumps are 1.25" and dropping back to 1" is not a problem and rarely effects the gpm delivered on the chart because you're only pumping from the static water level in the well and have no restriction with open discharge. And that open discharge can be a problem and you may need a throttle back valve, any partially closed valve or pipe restriction to provide some back pressure against the pump.

Gary Slusser

 

[Alan L.]

Gary I sort of understand what you are saying maybe. Thanks.

 

[Alan L.]

I picked up another 360 feet of PVC today, giving me a total of 660 feet. Seems like the job is growing as I plan it. I keep seeing other places I should put a faucet "while I'm at it". In figuring pressure reduction from friction etc, actually this is not one long length of pipe with a faucet at the end. There will be various Ts in different directions, the longest run is probably only about 250', but it is all fed by one 1.25 inch pipe coming out of the pressure tank.

A question I have is this: My plan was to put the faucets inline with the 1.5 inch water line simply by using a 1.5 by 3/4 inch T, so going directly from inch and a half to 3/4. Is there any reason not to do this, that is, to instead put a length of 1" out from the 1.5 inch a little ways and putting the 3/4 pipe there (with the faucet tied into that)?

 

[_RaT_]

Again, it depends on the length. If the 3/4" is just a riser, its not going to have a pressure drop that is going to amount to anything. I would use 1" if for no other reason except to add some strength. In fact, all my supplies are at least 2" and I come out of the ground with 2" risers and then drop down to 1" or 3/4" for my garden valves.

 

[EddieWalker]

The advantage of the larger pipe is it increases your volume since it holds more water. If you are only going to be using one line at a time, then it really isn't gonna matter how quickly you drop in size. It's not siginificant enough for you to notice the difference.

Eddie

 

[Alan L.]

I dug more than 600' of trenches in about 4 hours today, but managed to cut my phone line. Twice.

There is a telephone pole and the phone box on the south side of the building, so I was very surprised that my phone line comes in from the north and then goes around the building. I don't know what to do about it other than to splice it.

I learned that there is quite a bit of hand digging involved, so I am nowhere near finished tonight. There is dirt in the ditch everywhere that I dug a T one trench into another. I think it would have been better if I had not intersected the trenches and dug a little by hand, although the ground is like concrete.

I had been concerned about digging through the gravel drive, but it turns out that was the easist part of the whole thing. I guess there was more moisture under the driveway.

I will be missing church in the morning because I need to try to get the pipe in while I can cover it with the Ditch Witch, since it has a front blade that goes up and down and also will angle.

It was so hot today that I basically could not do the hand digging without getting exhausted. I have this to do, I didn't realize there would be so much hand digging, as it just too hot and I am getting too old to be doing that.

I think the heat index was like a 110 today, and the actual temp was at least 102, when I looked at the thermometer.

 

[_RaT_]

Get a small trencher shovel at your local irrigation supply place. I tend to go extra deep with the trencher. It is much easier to lift out the loose stuff then to have to dig it with a pick.

I just looked at the trencher. It has the old style blade, the new style is all carbide tipped with long studs. It does cut much faster in hard, dry material then the one you have although with a ride on, it still can go quickly.

 

[Alan L.]

I frankly was not all that impressed by this trencher. I had to go very slow, like an inch or two at a time, and I musta killed the engine 20 times. This thing is supposed to dig much deeper than the 24" I was trying to dig. Frankly, I got maybe half of it that deep, some deeper, and some as shallow as 12 or 14 inches. This trencher did not dig easy at all, but I did get about 650' done in about 4 hours.

The thing is very loud and the hydrostat did not work very good. It has no brakes. There is a forward and backward pedal, plus a hand control for the same thing. But the backward pedal would not work, you had to use the hand control. If you let go of it, it would slip out of place and the next thing you know it would be going forward.

These things take a beating. I'd hate to have to maintain one. This one had 882 hours on it. I see where the rental yard has them for about $25K used, but I wouldn't give $500 for it.

The good news is that I got my water lines in today. I trailered the trencher at 10:0 tonight. Fortunately I got some help from my son-in-laws' dad, and we got it done after cooled down to a mere 99 or so after 6:30. I am beat. Won't be tackling another project of this magnitude for a while.

 

[Alan L.]

I finally downloaded Picasa and got my pics below 100K. Using XP it is usually easy, but for some reason these pics only shrunk to 110K or so. So here are some pics of my trench. I now have all of this covered in and water at 6 new hydrants. Works great.