Runs nice and dies in 20 min UPDATE UPDATE

[Danica]

I just went back to that very first photo that you posted and those hoses really are in terrible condition. I wonder how we all missed that? But we did. Ordinarily I look at hoses only to see if they are leakers or not, but I have once or twice had hoses that collapsed and blocked flow. Just didn't expect to see that much aging on those hoses on a tractor that is not that old.

But there they are. The one hose going up has obvious cracks in the surface and the other one is one of those braided cover hoses that were always "iffy" - and of the sort with fiber reinforcing braid that I haven't seen in decades. The fiber braid is an obvious leak path. At least it does have one of the continuous pressure type hose clamps, and that's good because as a hose ages and hardens any kind of continuous pressure clamp works better than the worm drive clamps.

It still strikes me as odd about those age-cracks in both hoses. Especially with diesel fuel which just isn't that hard on elastomers.
It is normal for rapid aging and cracking to happen in older gas engine hoses when an older hose begins to see gasoline with alcohol in it. And we do know that some diesel additives contain substantial alcohol. I wonder if using certain diesel additives and long storage could be the cause of that premature rubber hose cracking?

Hint, occasionally for a gas engine like our mower or pressure washer I won't be able to find the right size fuel hose for a fitting - or maybe I just want to be able to use a semi-transparent hose. I've had good luck using model airplane fuel line. It's impervious to just about every chemical, flexible, and available in surprisingly large diameters.
YMMV,
rScotty

Excellent advice and i will try it out today!
Thank you
Danica

 

[Danica]

PS re your comment on fuel lines — why would it take 20 min and a warm engine for this problem to manifest itself? I mean, if there was air coming in are you suggesting that it takes a while for a sufficient ‘bubble’ in the line(s) to become a problem?

Tx again,
D

 

[JC-jetro]

We have been all over the place with this for all the right reasons. I still think it is fuel related .... but what triggers the fuel stoppage? I have a parasitic draw on my old van's harness somewhere. I checked inside the dash and everything possible but yet to find it. On top of that it is random and intermittent that I hate. My best solution was to remove battery negative and only put it back when i use the van to haul something. You might have a situation like that with the power to fuel kill solenoid being intermittent. You might have a loose connection, partially corroded connection or something that expand due to electrical power causing a circuit to open and after a while it cools off and then goes to normal (closed) position. This things are difficult to pinpoint. There are CT (Current Transducer) or data loggers that can be put in a circuit to graph to observe an anomaly based on programming of device for continuous monitoring. This is kind of outside the scope for a tractor. when it dies and tractor still hot immediately check the voltage to see if that gives you a tell tale sign. It is frustratingly slow process to pin point it. Just a food for thought!!

 

[piper184]

This has been a very interesting thread to follow. I have heard of hydraulic lines that de-laminate internally, causing all kinds of issues. Sometimes a piece can come loose and "flap" over a fitting partially or completely blocking the line. Other times they can "balloon" out with the same results but shrink back open when the pressure is off.

Possible that the same kind of thing is happening to you fuel lines. Hose warms up and gets flexible. Internally it collapses or balloons and shuts off the fuel flow. Cools down and returns to "normal". Even when you remove one end to check the flow while warm, the pressures change and it opens up. Of course this is all just speculation here.

If you have easy access to the lines, replacing them will get you new hose life and piece of mind about untimely failures in the future. Also it is just one more step in the process of elimination.

If it were me, I would replace them all (At this point I would be about frustrated enough to do that anyway) but keep the old hoses. Once confirmed that the problem is solved, I would be tempted to slice the hoses open lengthwise just to see inside. I am curious that way.

Hang in there, you have got to be getting close to the answer!

 

[LouNY]

One possibility would be a return line plugging, that would allow some run time till return pressure got too high,
when shut down it could slowly drop allowing restart.

 

[Danica]

Thank you for all the ideas. I will try what you’ve suggested tomorrow if it isn’t raining. Didn’t check the outflow of fuel from sediment bowl. Will do that. Yes there is a fuel pump and from the repair manual it seems pretty ez to remove (that Woods FEL is such a PITA when it come to accessing the engine components I almost feel like this would be easier with it off. Plus it has a Sims cab which makes access to tank a real issue). A blockage in the fuel filter head would be a dream…I can only hope and will check tomorrow if possible. I will also try bleeding at the injectors.

Parenthetically a friend with a cat 0 Kubota poured a 5 gal tank of fuel into his machine and he never kept it capped resulting in him pouring an entire dead wasp nest int the tank!! He was able to resolve it with the air blowback but I think this problem will come back to haunt him. Exact same symptoms as mine ironically).
D

Any idea what the indentation right at the top of the fuel filter housing is? It is VERY hard for me to get close due to FEL which makes all this a real pain. I had to just push my phone down to it to get close enuf. I am at a loss…

 

[Danica]

Ooops, yes that’s the screen I referenced earlier. Well, I will check it and if that’s the culprit will send the new $60 lift pump back. And you’re right I did not pay much attention to the filter casting so there are two possible solutions. Thanks again (and to those who mentioned these before)

Is this the indentation you were referring to? If so, what does it do? I haven’t removed the whole unit cap and bowl to thoroughly clean it.

 

[Danica]

Ooops, yes that’s the screen I referenced earlier. Well, I will check it and if that’s the culprit will send the new $60 lift pump back. And you’re right I did not pay much attention to the filter casting so there are two possible solutions. Thanks again (and to those who mentioned these before)

I don’t think this pre 1999 engine does not have a fuel lift pump? No reference to it in the repair manual…

 

[piper184]

The braided hoses at the sediment bowl, one from the tank and the other out to the lift pump or main fuel filter? Simple enough...

Where does the non-braided line come from/go to? Without seeing the whole system, I would guess it is a return line from the injectors or injector pump?

The depression in the top of the cast housing for the sediment bowl appears to be just a place where it could be drilled and tapped for another fitting that is not needed on your tractor. Quite possible the manufacturer only has one casting that it uses for many different installations. I have seen sediment bowls that had a water sensor in them. That might be one use for a fitting in that location.

 

[dirttoys]

fascinating. seen with gas engines with bad head gasket or cracked head.

Any oil in antifreeze or oil getting fuller?

pop radiator cap and see if you see bubbles before it dies?

remove thermostat and see if results change?

defeat shut down solenoid and see if results change?

Best,

ed