RV Park thoughts, suggestions & ideas.

[EddieWalker]

Eddie,

I have minimal experience with RV parks, only staying in one in a buddy's popup for a week in Texas for spring break, but how about this for a lightpole idea. Presumably, you'll need to mark each site with a number, letter, name, something to let people know that is there spot. What if you put up a cedar pole with a number plaque on it. Then mount some hooks or some such contraption on the back side of the pole to hang lights, lanterns, whatever from?

More along my lines, the fiber line will give you plenty of speed and bandwidth, but will be expensive. 'Connectorizing' fiber lines takes a special set of tools and skills and the contraptions that convert light into digital data are big bucks.

Shawn,

The way I have the park layed out, guests will drive down a one way road to there site. They will make a right turn into there site. To leave, they will make a left hand turn into another one way road that will take them out of the park, or back around again.

When they make that right hand turn into there site, there site number will be on a post with a light on top of it. This post will be on the left hand side of the RV as they pull in. I've been told by every RV Park owner that the biggest problem they have is the owners of RV can't drive. They sit at the front of thier rigs and have no idea what there rear wheels are doing. I fully expect them to drive off the roads when making this right hand turn because they cut it too tight. I'm allowing for this in my tree removal, but with some drivers, it won't matter how big and open you make a turn, they will run into something. Because of this, those posts will be on the safe side.

That means the RV will block the light from that post to the picnic table area, and the light from the site next to them should be blocked by trees. Those lights will only be 40 watts anyway to give just enough light to see your site and the road, but not much more.

Right now I'm thinking about those garden poles you can buy at Lowes and HD that people hand plants or bird feeders from. They are black powder coated with two hooks on eigher side. They are about six feet tall and not too expensive.

As to the fiber optic line, I'll look into it as one of my options. I think the most reliable way to get internet acces to the park is going to be through a landline of some sort.

Thanks
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie
To mass produce the tables, you could make a jig on a 4x8 sheet of plywood then lay your picnic table parts in the jig for positioning and drilling holes. A scrap wood template could be used for drilling the hole positions that join the stretchers (seat rails) to the legs. I have used this method to produce kids picnic tables in quantity, no reason why it would not work on a full sized table. Then it's just a matter of bolting them together. I made a couple of the kids tables out of White Oak and gave one to my grand daughter and the other my wife saw and claimed it, it is now our coffee table. It was not what I had intended it for, but being married to one of those artsy types sure keeps it interesting.

Dozer,

I like to buid jigs and use them when I can. Thanks for the tip.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie, have you thought about something like this for the light poles?

http://www.tnfab.com/Inside Catalog Pages/p39.pdf
Item # 3437

Expense could be a definete factor but they would look nice.

If you had them Powdercoated with BlackJack they would look great, and hold up a long time, but I am sure the expense will add up quick.

Just a thought.

Not sure what you could do that would go with the Wild Kingdom, probably wood.

Alan,

There are some really nice pieces at that website and I've considered using similar stuff with a Texas and wildlife them in my buildings, but not for the sites. I'm worried that if I make them too nice, they will disapear. Something simple for a cheap price is my ideal solution, but I kind of think I'll have to wait to see how it all comes together before I make my final desicion.

I'll have around 100 overnight, pull through sites. I'll open with two dozen sites and finish the rest off over time. So overall, cost will be spread out and not one big hit, but I still need to keep it to a reasonable level. I'd think $40 to $50 a hook is about top end and half that would realy make me happier. hahaha

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie,
I am greedier than you think. Actually I would love to ahve both! Poles along the side lot line for patio lights, about half way down. I'll try and draw a picture with words.

picture a rectangle. At the south end is the entrance to the site, on the west end is the camper, on the east side is a neighboring site and i dont' care to much about the back, north side. About half way down each north/south lot line put in a pole. I would string patio lights in a square, using the ends of the awnings of the camper and then the two poles. in the middle fo this square is the fire pit.

The I also, being greedy, I would love to have 2 holes drilled int he picnic tables, one at the end and one in the middle. Then A pole so that I could hang a lantern over my picnic table. Others have siad that they would not want a lantern over the picnic table but I cast one vote for the other side. I would loVE it.

I don't recall that barking dogs were ever a problem at any campsite I was at so I wouldn't worry so much about that.

I would rather see PCV than anything that needed paint. I hope you can figure out something so that it never needs to be painted. Honeslty i don't think plain old metal pipe is bad at all. IMHO.

Rox,

I'm getting a picture of what you're talking about, but I don't think you realize how many trees I have. They are not just all over, they cover just about every square foot!!! My biggest issue is how many to leave in and what to do about the news ones that keep sprouting. Unlike most places I've been to, here, trees are like weeds. We fight to keep them mowed down and under control!!!!

I was originally against a pole to hang anything on at all, but so many people like them, that I see it as something I have to include. Where to put it so it's not in the way of my crews cleaning and mowing is a big concern. Everything sticking out of the ground is something that we have to work around. Times it by 100 and it can be a real pain. The table location offers out of the way simplicity, but doesn't allow for a table cloth. Putting it in concrete at the edge of the pad is about the best idea I've come up with as I can still mow around the pad without haveing to weed eat around the pole.

PVC breaks down over time and doesn't hold up for long term use. I want something permanet that is also attractive and affordable. Campground suppliers have them, but they are expensive. Making them myself will probably be expensive in man hours and probably not come out very nice anyway without allot of effort.

HD and Lowes is becoming my favorite idea so far.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie: Coax is the way to go for your communications needs. You will only have to maintan one system. I just finsihed up a building using coax for 400 units. Boradband internet, Voice and cable tv. Actually if you really want to get fancy dump a Fiber To The home system in. It is not that much more money and easy to maintain. CAT 5 can work but do you want to maintain the additional gear? You can only cascade so many switchs so you will need to design the lay-out. You will end up having a tech on-call because people get really upset when they can't get their e-mail. I know this is what I do for a living.

If I understand you, you are going to meter each site? this means you will have read ins and read outs. this will be quite a few trips to the meter. With the coax system you could implemet automatic meter reading. This all adds up to capital money. Kid on a moped could get readings and call them bak to check out via a FRS handheld.

FOr the TV system you cna get a headend in the box fairly cheap and have the channles you need. Most times RV'r probabaly want the local off-airs. You full timers can just get thir own dishs. Actually most RV'r just bring their dish from home along with them.

Also for a bandwidth provider you can use Satelite fairly well. Not the wild blue that is sold to home users. There a couple of providers that will actually provide everythign you want including the back office support. You can probably feed the park with wireless also. There is some great products out jsut for this application. Running cat 5 and maintaing this in an uderground enviroment is going to pose some challanges. I have done it. small little trialer park with 100 units. works ok.

PM me and I can help you out. The key is that you don't want some lady real estate agent pulling in and having issues with internet access. SHe will become the most fun you have had in a long time. Deals are made via email these days. I just sold part of my farm ( 400 miles away from home) and I have never met the realator who sold it for me. 500 emails later I have it sold.

Another story!! I just dealt with a hotel who has a very bad network. They had a customer who packed his bags and moved to another hotel at 1am due to the internet not allowing him to VPN in to his office. He was on vacation. The internet has become a tool that people cannot and will not live without.

Sorry for the rambleing and bad grammer it is late for me.

Great project

Danocheese,

Here is where I get lost. I have no idea of the advantages and negatives to Cat 6 or Coax? What I'm thinking is that the internet system is overwhelming me and I need to break it down into smaller bits of information that I can get a handle on.

I don't want to deal with satelitte. Weather here is such that it goes out all the time. Its not reliable and service is aweful. If I have a problem, it's days until I can get a tech out here and even then, they change companies, and those companies change employees so often, that it's always an adventure to see what happens.

Hopefully I can bring in a land line of some sort. Either T1 or fiber optic. Of couse, it might be impossible, but that's gonna be my goal I think.

Then I get confused again. My place is heavily wooded and wi fi will suffer from my trees. If I run cables all over the park to a bunch of transmitters, then I should be able to overcome the wifi issue. Maybe?

Next is finding a provider to allow my overnight guests to use the net for free while they are here and to be able to charge a monthly fee to my permanents. I'm really lost on this part of it.

I don't know what cascade means?

Due to my total lack of knowledge on this, what I might do is see if anybody wants to help me with a design when I get the land cleared and know some real measurments and numbers. I'll aslo ask for some contacts and companies to talk to. Then I can come back here and see if I'm being givin some good information, or BS.

For metering electricity, there is realy two RV Parks that I'm building with different requirments for each. One is the long term, monthly rental sites. They will have meters and pay for the electricity they use based on the bill and what I'm charged for electricity. I cannot legally make a profit on electriciyt, but I can be reinbursed for what's used.

For the overnight sites, I'm still debating on the upfront cost of putting meters in. There have been quite a few studies done on them and there advantages. On the whole, when a guest sees a meter, they use less electicity. I won't charge for what they use as it's built into there nightly fee, but I can monitor what a site uses on average and adjust the bill accordingly. Say I charge $30 a night and electicity is $5 a night. That would be about right and where I want to be. If electricity goes up to $10 a night on average, then I need to raise my rates.

The biggest issue with electricity will be AC usage in summer. People who pay attention will not have it on as high if they are not there. With a meter, this is more likely to happen then if there is no meter. In most parks without meters, people tend to turn up the AC when they are gone and leave it at full blast.

TV is something that I understand just a bit better than intenet, which means very little. Both Dish and DirectTV offer commercial services to large buyers like hotels and apartment complexs that I'm thinking about using. I can't get Cable TV out here, so I'm limited to those two providers. Or at least,that's what I think right now. A basic package is under $9 per site per month. This will be provided to overnight guests as part of there overnight fee, and sold to long term guests with a small markup.

How it's installed is still a mystery,but with the number of channels I'll be buying, I'm hopeful they will be able to do it themselves. Again, it's one of those things I'll have to deal with when I have some real numbers.

One thing is for sure, the very first thing everyone does when they set up is get the TV going. Even those who complain about TV and watching too much all have to have it. They will spend hours and hours inside there RV watching it during the day. Now with internet so popular, that's also a huge demand that will keep guest inside there RV's during the day. It doesn't matter to me what they do here, just as long as I can get them to come here.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie, maybe you can let Sprint or someone put a tower on your property in exchange for service to your park. Just a thought, but then again, I don't know if I'd want one of those on my place.

I've thought of this too, but realy would rather not, plus I've just about used up every bit of my land and there is not obvious location to do this. Not to mention it wouldn't be very attractive.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

CAT 5 may be a good way to get Internet to various areas of the park. But I do not think many RV's have a way to hook up to it inside their RV's. Wireless seems to be the standard. Most parks I have stayed in that have wireless become almost useless around 6 pm daily. I try to do most of my Internet surfing away from this high demand time period.

Ron,

You bring up a good point. When I fist started planning this about five years ago, it wasn't very common for people to have wi fi laptops. I now realize that I haven't been paying attention to it and how many people have and expect wi fi.

The more replies I get on this topic, the less I know.

Would it be smart on my part to just make sure I have good wi fi coverage over all my sites? No land lines to RV or cabins? I was thinking of ethernet connections at the pedistal, the cabins and in my buildings, but that might be an unneeded expense. No point in running all that extra wire if I just need to put in a bunch of transmitters and have a massive bandwidth to handle it.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Ron:

This is more because the internet connection for the entire park gets overloaded than because of the wireless part.

I agree that wireless is the "de facto" standard for RV users, and if a park doesn't have it, it might as well not have internet.

Eddie:

You might want to check this out, but I have never stayed at an "internet enabled" RV park that had anything other than wireless.

The secret is enough nodes, closely enough spaced so you can cover all the spaces. Plus, a large enough capacity connection in the first place. Your campground connection is going to have to be fast enough to handle all the traffic.

I would research this, put in cat 6 wire to the places where I needed a wireless node (router, repeater, switch) and then wait until just before the park opened to actually put in the service. Equipment is getting better by the month, and prices are coming down fast. Some benign neglect will get you a better, less expensive system.

Dave,

What's a "node?"

I'm feeling overwhelmed on this topic and my lack of knowledge. Two things I want to do is make sure everyone can access the web at all times while here, and have a system that is reliable.

You guys are giving me allot of information that I'm having trouble keeping up with. Would anybody be willing to walk me through some ideas on how to do it? From bringing the line into the Park, to what happens after that.

I think I can get the line here, and I think I understand about the transmitters, but all the in between steps has me lost. Especially the part about the different wires, repeaters, routers and switches. Nodes too!!!

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Also for a bandwidth provider you can use Satelite fairly well. Not the wild blue that is sold to home users. There a couple of providers that will actually provide everythign you want including the back office support. You can probably feed the park with wireless also. There is some great products out jsut for this application. Running cat 5 and maintaing this in an uderground enviroment is going to pose some challanges.


I have not priced coaxial cable how much is it running these days. Also what kind of attenuation do you have with it at internet bandwidths. IN an RV park how many in line amplifiers would you need for an average park with cable. How much are those amplifiers. As far as cascading switches go the average run of the mill router that you can actually get for 100.00 at best buy will handle 256 connections. Last time I bought one it did not have 256 ports I believe that you make those connections either through a hub or a switch. At todays prices a hub is a total waste of money. Sattelite providers if you are talking about sattelite and not Microwave all have the same problem latency times. It takes a while for the signal to reach a geosynchronous sattelite in orbit and to come back down. If most of the Rv's are wireless then you do need to accomodate them. I probably would have a small router in my RV and hook that up to a cat 5 cable if I had my drothers but not every body thinks like me.

Gemini,

More terms here I don't understand?

I'm gonna guess I'll need to be able to handle around 350 computers online when I'm done and everyone is online at the same time. If some RV's have two computers, this would mean even more.

Is this allot?

I'm thinking I'm in trouble here. hahahaha

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[ronjhall]

The best parks that I have stayed at with wi-fi all seem to have the slow-down each evening. I have stayed at some big parks that had wi-fi at every site. But how they got the signal out I have no idea. I would think that a wi-fi setup that could handle 350 computers trying to access Internet at the same time would be very expensive $$$$$$ Going to be interesting how you handle this issue.