RV Park thoughts, suggestions & ideas.

[Bird]

Dave, you're right about the discounts. A few years ago I had occasion to spend 3 weeks at a time in several different RV parks in West Texas. Of course I told the park operators that I'd only be there 3 weeks, but I paid for a month's rent in advance because one monthly rate was cheaper than 3 weekly rates. And all but one of those parks included the electricity. However, when I spent 8 months in one place, we had a separate electric meter, and one place I stayed in West Texas was actually a mobile home park instead of an RV park, but the owner rented me a site and I paid for the electricity used by the meter. Right now both my brothers are living in RVs in Texas and their sites have individual meters. However, one of them goes to Washington State for the summer, pays almost double the rent he pays in Texas, but it includes the electricity.

 

[rox]

Dave,

Nice answer. I think you are pretty clear,

"A park owner would be far ahead of the game to cover the cost of electricity in his basic charge, and not try to nickel and dime me to death. He should charge enough to cover the cost if I want to leave my AC on all day long"

Then the only way to achieve electric savings is if the majority of RV Park owners charged for electric for short term/week-end rentals and this then does not become an item of comparison between parks (non controlable by Edie) OR to provide shade protection so that the A/C's don't have to work as hard.

is therre no other method you can think of which would aid in reducing electrical expense by passing along some of the expense to the high end users such as yourself (you run the air all day for the dogs, I am understanding and appreciative of why you do that), without losing rentals?

 

[WhyNot]

Eddie,

I am not an RVer so I have no experience with RV parks but, I would like to through my 2 cents in so here it goes. If you have a T-1 (1.54 meg pipe up and down) line installed you are going to pay by mileage. So you can figure around $500 if you are lucky to $800 a month and you will likely need 2 so there is no slow down issues. Then add the cost of running all of the cat 5 cable= big $ (and I mean outdoor cable not inside wire unless you run it in conduit so it can be replaced easily) to each wireless access point plus the cost of the access points and the consultants to install and maintain the equip. you are looking at quite a large chunk of money that in my opinion will never be recouped. Here is my thinking, If an Rver has to have internet they will most likely have a wireless aircard from a cellular company to access the internet. They work great and provide enough bandwith to make do. For the occasional user that want's to check their e-mail I would get a broadband connection($40-$50 a month) from a provider in your area (telco, cable, sat.) and set up a wireless connection at your lounge and at the Deli/store. They can check their e-mail from there while they enjoy their breakfast bought from your store. You may loose some customer's due to this but I doubt those few customers would pay enough to recoup your cost. Same goes for phone service just let the RVer's use thier cell phones and place a few pay phones here and there. Again I am no RVer so I am looking at it as a buisness decision and not a matter of convenience so I could be way off base. Have a great Christmas with Steph and the kids

 

[CurlyDave]

is there no other method you can think of which would aid in reducing electrical expense by passing along some of the expense to the high end users such as yourself (you run the air all day for the dogs, I am understanding and appreciative of why you do that), without losing rentals?

In Texas, the majority of the electric cost is going to be AC. The only way I can think of to control this is to provide lots of shade, which will reduce the AC load, and control costs that way.

One issue with shade is that you really need to provide cable TV if you have shade. The reason is that many RVers have satellite TV. Shade is provided by trees on the south side of the RV, but the satellite dish has to have an unobscured view of the southern sky. It won't work in a nice, shady location. Since Eddie is already planning on providing TV, he is ahead of the gme here.

This is a tough question. Eddie has to compete in the RV park world. If everyone else is providing free electricity, he has to go along with it, or lose rentals.

Part of this whole question is how much does electricity cost at Eddie's location?

I am not really a "high end" RVer, just a 3 year old, budget Class C. We have a 30 Amp connection and can't possibly use more than 3.6 kW. Even if we leave the AC on all day, we won't use it all night, so the most we can possibly use is about 50 kW-hours per day.

The guys with the big Class A rigs, have 50 Amp connectors so they can use 6 kW, maybe 80 kW-hours per day.

A lot of parks will charge different prices for rigs 30 feet & under vs. 31 feet & over. The real difference is 31 feet & over is the Class A range, with 50 Amp connections.

Eddie's spaces are going to pretty much all the same, but he can still charge based on rig size and make up something toward his electric cost that way.

 

[EddieWalker]

Gemini & Dave,

Thank you for the explinations. I'm still lost, but not as lost. hahaha

Obviously I'm way behind here, so it's gonna take a bit to catch up, but you guys have realy helped.

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Here is A lot of Info on internet services provider for the camping and outdoor hospitality industries.

TengoInternet: Wireless Internet Providers: WiFi Location directory for RV Parks, Campgrounds, Hotels and Motels

good luck

Mike,

I've met with some guys from Tengo and they seem to know what they are talking about and got it figured out. I'm not a fan of how they sell access to my guests. It's now how I want to do it, but if I have to, they are one of my last resorts.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie: The advantage to using coax is that you would only have to build one distribution system. TV, Voice and Data. Yes this can all be done in an IP network but try and buy the headend for IP $$$ I would put wirelss in the common areas. I wired up a small park in California ( boy do they have rules about RV parks) We were able to feed everything with CAT5 Ethernet topology, cat3 telephone and coax drops from local cable provider. We even added a park channel so the manager could sell some advertising and post announcments. I imangine your park is more remote, so your first issue is getting wholesale product ot the edge. There are options that will not break the bank. Today we installed a newer technology wirelss access point and were getting great results at 1400 feet sitting inside a van. So when you are ready to start building your network, start a new thread and you will get some ideas about what is out there. It is getting better everyday.

Danocheese,

You and Rox have a good idea to start a new thread on my internet issus. I think I have a working understanding on most aspects of what I want to do, but this part of it keeps changing and I'm not even able to understand the old methods.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie,

How far apart are the permanent from the overnight campers going to be? I'm asking because if you have a permanent camper on edge, they might still be able to access the wireless connection w/o paying. Then the rest of your perm campers are going to be upset that they have to pay for their Internet. I think you are going to find the perm campers will be upset anyway with the nickle and diming them. Rent, electric, and Internet on top of that.

Sorry, just my .02.

jwstewar,

The exotic wildlife preserve will seperate the two areas. Monthly rentals on the north end and overnght sites on the south. The distance varies, but on averate, it will be around 500 feet.

My goal is to not nickel and dime anybody, but the market here is what it is. Monthly rates are very low in my opinion for what you get and high speed internet to a monthly site just isn't done. If I can get a system in place that lets them access the net for a reasonable price, I can always build it into there monthly rate, but I have my doubts about that happening.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

If you do go wireless, and charge the monthy campers, and offer if free to the ovrnights and weeklies, if I were a monthly, I would just carry my laptop over to the area that had the free connection and work there. The battery on my laptop lasts pretty long.

Also you are right about the elctric meters. When we had our permenent campsite with no electric meters I did use an electric heater rahter than propane when it was jsut chily. When it was really cold I had to use the camper heater and use the propane.

Rox,

I only have one neighbor, but he's already asked about my wi fi system and when it will be up and running. He was trying to decide weather to run a phone line or to try and steal from me.

What you say does bring up a good point. I might be likely to wonder around with my laptol looking for free internet too. Definately something to add to the equation.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Then the only way to achieve electric savings is if the majority of RV Park owners charged for electric for short term/week-end rentals and this then does not become an item of comparison between parks (non controlable by Edie) OR to provide shade protection so that the A/C's don't have to work as hard.

is therre no other method you can think of which would aid in reducing electrical expense by passing along some of the expense to the high end users such as yourself (you run the air all day for the dogs, I am understanding and appreciative of why you do that), without losing rentals?

Hi Rox,

There has already has been allot of good information from the other posts on the meters and electrical usage, but I'll offer a few more and my reasonings for them.

I think from your earlier posts that our definition of what a long term site's are differ. My understanding is that you consider a long term site to be something like a vacation rental. A place you park your RV, set up your campstite and make it something homey and comfortable.

If I could get clients like that, I'd section off entire roads for them!!!

Here, long term sites are for people of very low imcome or contractors in the area for months at a time. Snow birds may become part of this group, but they are very rare here.

These people may have jobs, go to school or be retired. They will be coming and going at all hours and consider thier spaces there homes. It's just like renting an apartment in many ways. I charge them a basic fee and include water, sewer and garbage. If they want phone, that's on them and the phone company. They are free to get a satelitte system for TV, or thay can pay for my cable system for half the price. Same with internet, they can get it over the phone line, use satelitte or pay for my system.

Due to my need to keep the basic rate down, I have to make them responsible for there electric usage.

This part of the operation isn't much of a money maker. If I can pay my bills and show a postive cash flow, then I've succeeded.

Overnight sites have the potential to make a good profit. Minimzing the electrical usage will help with this, but know what's being used and adjusting the rate for the site on this is how most parks do it. Just a few years ago, RV's were just starting to push the envelope with 40 plus foot rigs with 50 amp demands. Allot of parks started a two tiered rate on the for electric usage. From every source I've talked to, this was a disaster. Just like Dave mentione, guests will just go to the place that doesn't do this. Walmart, Cracker Barrel and alllot of gas stations all offer free parking for the night.

Some RV Parks are also discriminating on older rigs because they say there electrical usage is more than newer, more efficient RV's. I don't believe this, but I also know that usage will very allot from site to site depending on the RV and peoples attitudes.

Imaging 100 sites all renting out for a month. 3,000 payable nights if I sell out. Not very realistic, so lets say I have a really bad park and fall below the national averages and national medium occupancy rates. We'lll use 1,000 billable nights in a month times 12 for the year. Averages are gonna tell me how much electricity is used per month and what part of my rates go towards those fees. I'll use this number when adjusting my rates based on what I'm paying for electricity.

From what I've been told, it's only a few bucks a night. $3 give or take is what most RV's use. It adds up to a very large sum real quick!!!

But there is no way that I'd try to ge another buck out of those who might use more. Even if an RV uses twice the average, it's not worth the bad publicity I'd get for limiting electrical usage or charging extra for it.

This brings up an even bigger expense, or possible expense. Bad publicity. I like the way you think Rox, you don't have any boundries and are way outside the box, but on this, I'll have to follow along with what guests want and expect.

Thank you ,
Eddie