Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system

   / Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system #41  
Micro Inverters with software seem to be all the new installs and to get the credit a battery system required.

Mine are old school… they just work and the components will be 20 years old in 2029…
 
   / Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system #42  
Both valid points. Like you, I'm in northern New England and at this house we get almost no direct sun from mid Nov. thru mid Feb., the exact time of year our electric usage is the highest. Sun's just too low in the sky.
We're both in our mid 70s, not likely it'll pay for itself in our lifetimes.
Dollar wise, for many of us with less than ideal locations, investing the same money in the market, will be a better long term investment. Plus no maintenance.
 
   / Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system #43  
I was curious about solar array maintenance and found essential no required maintenance needed

During months without rain washing the dust with a garden hose does improve performance but this is only because it can be many months without rain.

I also adjust the panel tilt twice a year but only to improve performance.
 
   / Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system #44  
About 10 years ago, I worked with a fried installing solar panels. Mostly residential, but we did occasionally do larger. The information I'm sharing is probably a bit dated, but here are my thoughts:

One of the things I did was a comparison of the benefit to the homeowner of an outright purchase of the system to a lease or Power Purchase Agreement (PPA). I'm sure things may have changed a bit in the ensuing 10 years, but at the time, the leases and PPAs were just an abysmal deal for the homeowner. The first ones I did the comparison on, it was 9 to 10 times more financially beneficial to the homeowner to buy it outright than to do one of the alternative arrangements, even if it meant refinancing a mortgage or taking out a home equity loan to do so. By the end of my time in that business, the guys pushing the leases and PPAs had gotten a bit more competitive: buying outright was only 7 or 8 times better.

One of the things we found was that the people who were pushing the leased or PPA systems would quote someone a price for a purchased system, but they often did so at a greatly inflated price, so their lease or PPA looked better when compared. It can be very difficult to compare the net benefits of the various systems, if that sort of analysis is not something you have experience in. The lease/PPA companies don't do anything to make it easy either. The smart homeowners made a point to get quotes from more than one installer, and ideally at lest one from a supplier who was not pushing alternative financing arrangements.

The middlemen are in business to make money also. The only way I would ever consider one of these lease agreements would be if I did not have the credit rating to get a home equity loan or other financing at decent rates.
_____________

As to maintenance: there isn't much. If you live in a dusty area, hose them off once in a while. that's pretty much it.

We installed quality panels from "first tier" manufacturers (and regularly checked on the manufacturer's financial condition as a means of estimating whether they would still be around years down the road.) The warranty was 25 years on the panels we installed. If I recall correctly, the panel we used were warranted to still put out at least 80% of their rated power after 25 years. That may well have changed over the past decade since I was involved. Many of the panels installed 40 years ago are still running today, and the technology has improved (they do degrade over time, losing a bit of max output over the years, but still provide usable power.)

The Microinverters we installed (mini inverters which attached to each panel) had a 20 or 25 year warranty. They are a bit more work to replace if roof mounted, since you had to go up on the roof and most likely unmount the panel to get to them). The string inverters typically had a 10 year warranty (larger units where you tied a string of panels together and fed them into a big inverter mounted where access was easy). So they would not last as long, but they were very easy to replace: not much different than installing an appliance that was hardwired in. String inverter efficiency has improved to the point that when we installed my system, I used that rather than micro inverters. I figured the ease of replacement outweighed the possible need to remove things from the roof, and even if I factored in the need to replace the string inverter at 10 or 12 years, the cost was not all that different.

In all the time I was working with this business, we had only one microinverter fail, and it did so within a few weeks of installation. This happened on my own system, so we just submitted the warranty claim, got the replacement, and put it in.
 
   / Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system
  • Thread Starter
#45  
Talked with a builder friend and realtor friend. One told me about the Hazmat Waste when time to get rid of them. The other one told me about a current house not being sold due to complications with the leased panels.

What I am gathering is putting on the ground, and owning the equipment. I definitely dont want them on my new house roof. I am not doing anything right now but the state of Virginia is going to be mostly all reusable energy in the future and our bills are already going up to pay for it all. Got to love the Monopoly.
 
   / Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system #46  
The barn needed a roof. Fed subsidy at the time was 35% State had another $2,500 grant. We needed to refinance the farm. Our electric bill was $800/month during winter to keep water buckets and troughs warm for the criitters. In general we use 3X the juice of a typical household.
For about $30K including a new roof we added 14KW of solar with micro inverters to barn. Our mortgage payment extended another 3 years, but the payment was the same.
Our electric bill is now $400 to $500 during winter while we pay nothing for 2-3 months of year when not running house AC etc. Our water heater and stove is propane and we heat with wood mostly.
We would have never done solar without the incentives and needing barn roof.
Payback will be slow, but it made sense given our circumstances.
 

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   / Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system #47  
A couple questions regarding inverters.
How electrically noisy are they? My only experience with inverters is with ones typically used with a vehicle and they seem to be all over the place. Some you almost don't know they're running, others forget about trying to listen to a radio within 25' of it, they just obliterate everything. And all shades in between.
Tolerable in a temporary situation, but at a permanent installation that would be a deal breaker for me.

Also, how do the multiple "micro" inverters sync with each other so voltage, frequency and phase are the same from every unit?
 
   / Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system #48  
Also, how do the multiple "micro" inverters sync with each other so voltage, frequency and phase are the same from every unit?
They read the frequency of the power line and sync to it. They have to be grid-connected to work. If you lose power they shut off.
 
   / Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system #49  
I never heard any noise from the micro=inverters on my system. Not sure they were suppose to make noise.
 
   / Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system #50  
My large inverter is near silent and mounted outside.

The plus of micro inverters is each panel independently produces power and not dependent on others like a string system.

This also helps should there be shading during the day…
 

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