Salesman trying to sell me a solar panel system

[ponytug]

A couple questions regarding inverters.
How electrically noisy are they? My only experience with inverters is with ones typically used with a vehicle and they seem to be all over the place. Some you almost don't know they're running, others forget about trying to listen to a radio within 25' of it, they just obliterate everything. And all shades in between.
Tolerable in a temporary situation, but at a permanent installation that would be a deal breaker for me.

Also, how do the multiple "micro" inverters sync with each other so voltage, frequency and phase are the same from every unit?

Electrically, they are near perfect, as the voltage and phase gets adjusted tens of thousands of times per second. They have to be perfect to be able to reliably export power, in the face of changing house loads and grid voltages. Here, they are better than the local grid. (Long story, but the bottom line was our power quality got a detailed analysis at one point when our solar system was throwing over voltage errors. It turned out to be a grid over voltage issue caused by how our distribution line was configured (set too high by the utility), and exacerbated by multiple solar systems all trying to apply power to the neighborhood during sunny periods that further pushed the grid out of standard values.)

Each microinverter has the "smarts" to track the grid voltage and phase to enable it to apply the solar power as an export.

If the grid dies, microinverters and inverters have no frequency/voltage (waveform) to track so they shut off. If the house has a battery system, the battery controller will cut the connection to the grid and use the batteries to generate an AC waveform that gives power to the house, and a signal that the solar system can track to supply power. If the batteries are full, the battery controller will raise the frequency to 62.5-65Hz and the higher frequencies cause the solar microinverters and inverters to taper (or shut off) their applied power. All designed to be robust, and simple. Different parts of the world have slightly different grid standards and those standards are part of configuring the system.

Acoustically, silent.

Does that answer your question?

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

I was approached this week by a solar company. I live in Virginia and our electric bill is rising due to Virginia doing away with coal and nuclear. There are solar farms popping up everywhere. Salesmen said I would save money over the long haul with solar. They own the panels and I would pay a 2.99 percent rate increase every year. Solar panels warrantied for 25 years. Showed me how much cheaper it would be for me over time vs increases by the electric company. I would pay nothing upfront and they would provide all maintenance on the system.

Anyone done anything like this? I am very skeptical about this.

Sorry... anytime someone mentions salesmen, I think of the movie Second Hand Lions...

 

[ponytug]

Sorry... anytime someone mentions salesmen, I think of the movie Second Hand Lions...

Awesome film, with great acting!

 

[John_Mc]

My large inverter is near silent and mounted outside.

The plus of micro inverters is each panel independently produces power and not dependent on others like a string system.

This also helps should there be shading during the day…

It used to be that with a string inverter (multiple panels in series connected to a single large inverter) each panel in the string would only put out as much as the worst panel in that string. So if just one panel was partially shaded, the output of every panel on that string suffered.

The newer technology with string inverters uses optimizers mounted on each panel. These allow each panel in the string to put out their max output even if one is shaded. The optimizers are NOT the same as microinverters: the panels still all feed into a single large string inverter. It's just a bit of technical wizardry to overcome what used to be one of the main shortcomings of using a string inverter.

 

[mikester]

In my area the property tax assessors treat solar panels as extra square footage for your house.

We don't get enough sunshine or wind to make solar or windmills cost effective due to long payback times.

A good general rule of thumb to remember is that it's easier to conserve energy than to make it.

 

[ponytug]

In my area the property tax assessors treat solar panels as extra square footage for your house.

We don't get enough sunshine or wind to make solar or windmills cost effective due to long payback times.

A good general rule of thumb to remember is that it's easier to conserve energy than to make it.

That's creative...I'd be tempted to arrange a meeting in mid January at the panels...

In all seriousness, would a 2,000sqft home with 1,500sq.ft of panels would be assessed at the same rate as the 3,500sq.ft. McMansion down the street?

All the best, Peter

 

[scott_vt]

Good Afternoon bmaverick,

If you live on a farm, look into propane. It stores better, gives better energy density over solar during peak demands and it is fully off-grid. Most natural gas appliances can easily convert to propane too. Propane has a life of 50 years in storage too.

I agree ! If you are going to go solar, by the sounds of what I have heard from other people and people on this thread, it sounds like it’s best to own !

I pre buy my propane every August, I get a good reduction in price and am pretty happy with that
deal ! I am with Ultrarunner, if I ever did do it , it wouldn’t be with someone boring holes in my roof ! It would be out on the field JMO !

 

[dstig1]

I never heard any noise from the micro=inverters on my system. Not sure they were suppose to make noise.

Pretty sure he was talking about RF noise as in radio interference... Not audible sound.

 

[mike69440]

In my area the property tax assessors treat solar panels as extra square footage for your house.

We don't get enough sunshine or wind to make solar or windmills cost effective due to long payback times.

A good general rule of thumb to remember is that it's easier to conserve energy than to make it.

Ah Canada!

 

[NorTracNY]

After reading all these post it's incredibly clear that you need to do some serious investigation for if solar is right for you.

It appears that for many people leasing is horrible. As I mentioned, when the guy called me to tell me that NY just had passed the law allowing leasing, he said it didn't work out for everyone. They also did have the option for me to make monthly payments. I believe at the time that it wasn't nearly a deal for me. I was basically going to have to pay the same to the solar company as I had been to the electric company.

In NY, they are not allowed by law to consider solar panels for assessment. Which really p@%@ me off when we've had to challenge our assessment and the town's assessor looks at a picture of our house and says, "I see you have solar panels."

The inverter in downstairs. It's nearly silent and I only notice when it turns on and off if I'm near it. It doesn't impact the WiFi.

One of the two companies we were dealing with when we were looking to buy them let me know that one person wouldn't buy until they gave him a quote to remove and reinstall the panels. At the time it was $1K that he'd need to add to getting a new roof. For us, a ground mounted system would have added $1-2K, but we didn't have as good of a sun view with the trees around.

We were careful about leasing and potentially needing to sell the home. Our lease agreement was incredibly clear that it was just a matter of letting the company know the name of the new owners.

As mentioned prior, we were interested in panels, but this was really a financial investment decision for us. It was ridiculous for taxpayers. I believe the system was $30K, but tax incentives would take it to $12-13K, and then leasing allowed a company to factor in depreciation and let us have it for $5200. If we wanted to own it at year 7, it was going to be about another $700. An now, because of bankruptcy, we ended up owning that $30K system for just $5200.

And all this discussion is just around residential.... I know someone that over the years has been approached about using some of their land to put in a solar farm. At least 3 separate companies have given him 10s of thousands of dollars, just for him letting them consider doing it! None have gone through with the final deal, but they've paid him just to let them investigate further...