Sell me on Branson

[fried1765]

FRIED1765: I highly value your posts, less this one.

For a <2,000 pound tractor, a $3,000 trailer may suffice but the OP is now considering heavier.

I have owned trailers but never a trailer suitable for a tractor. Reading T-B-N, it seems selecting a trailer suitable for a compact tractor is as complex as selecting a tractor.

What about trailer brake controller on the truck? What about truck fuel and truck depreciation? What about trailer and trailer-load supplementary insurance? What about trailer tags? What about opportunity cost of OP's time?

If a dealer will transport for $2.00 per mile, only trying to cover cost of HD truck, HD trailer, ample insurance and full cost of driver/mechanics time, I doubt a tractor owner with a suitable truck and suitable trailer and liability insurance can SAFELY haul for less than $2.00 per mile, valuing tractor owner's self-transport time at "0". Each round trip (180 miles) will consume most of a day, with loading, tying down, driving 180 miles, unloading, waiting for service, communicating tractor problem(s), fueling truck, a meal, etc.

A dealer has to size truck, size trailer and size insurance for the heaviest, most expensive tractor dealer is liable to haul during the year. An owner with lesser needs will not, but all the same expense categories are there.

I have owned three tractors. I am pretty good at numbers. I have never been able to figure how I could trailer a tractor as cheap as my dealer, who has the advantage of spreading depreciation, tags and insurance costs over 300 excursions per year.


I am six miles from my tractor dealer. I am charged $50.00 for each transport.

6 miles X 4 segments = 24 miles $50.00/24 miles = $2.08 per mile.

THE DIVERSITY OF OPINIONS POSTED ON T-B-N IS ITS STRENGTH.​

You cannot sell trailer after one trip AND have trailer available for future needs.

"You cannot sell trailer after one trip AND have trailer available for future needs"

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!
The idea here, is that after ONE use, you could easily sell a $3,000 trailer for $2,300, OR you would instead, have a trailer that is ALWAYS available, with a net cost of only $2,300, a cost which is readily recoverable.

I live over 100 miles from the nearest tractor dealer.

I have taken two of my tractors to Canada to have meaningful mechanical work done, and complete paint jobs for both.
Total estimated saving was $6,700 USD over USA labor rates. (CAD $ is only.75 of USD, and rural Canada labor rates are very low)
Cost of my 14K equipment trailer new was $4,400.
I towed with my 1997 GMC K2500 Suburban.
Fuel cost total for both trips was just under $1,000.

So...... I am $1,300 ahead after complete payment for the trips, and trailer, and I still own a now used trailer worth at least $3400.
Saved $4,700 net......BECAUSE I have a trailer.
I did not make a special Canada trip. I owned a Summer home there.

A trailer allows one to take advantage of unforeseen opportunities.

Recently sold my dad's VW Rabbit diesel and trailered it.

 

[Texasmark]

My corral is listed. Might note the year model of the 6530 new purchase and the year model of the 2400 new purchase. On the 2400 with loader I bought it new for $12.4k from Big Tex. in Caddo Mills Tx. (They currently post on here). I didn't want the hydro which has not only the hydro tranny but the independent PTO (I think). I have the stick shift with the tranny driven PTO with overrun clutch internal. Difference is that when the wheels turn the PTO turns if engaged. On Independent, if the engine is running you can switch it on or off when desired.

Only problem is my back and I have gone to a lot of trouble to develop a soft ride. All these tractors of that size, brand xyz, you name it, come with big rear tires and I guess it's because they are setup for a backhoe and I would assume that you surely want 2500# (each) rated tires on the rear of an 1800# tractor if you have a backhoe hanging off it.

You need to pay attention to the tires you get. Seems that industrial R4s are the going thing but they aren't worth a hoot if you need some traction. R1s get you there and are a softer riding tire. I bought a set of R3s for the rear thinking that would give me a softer ride (obviously not made for traction) and they were as rough as the OEM R4s.

On Korean origin, I have the highest respect for their quality and workmanship....their tires too.

Only other thing I didn't like was the rear tire spacing for my usage...wanted more stability than these (xyz brands included) little tractors have, so I added about 250# per rear wheel and made 4" spacers for better stability working my 30* slopes.

On dealer location, I buy and kiss the dealer goodbye so it matters not where they are. Big Tex is about 50 miles from me and I have been over there twice: Once to buy the tractor, went over there with cash and my trailer, and the other time was for a couple of cans of paint for my wheel weights. I use the tractor daily in season and roughly once a week in the off season. Changed the fluids and filters and that's it. It has the Cummins Licensed A1100 NA naturally aspired, swirl chamber engine. Swirl chambers are a small cavity where the fuel is injected and lit off thereby exploding through a port to the main combustion chamber. On smaller engines it means that the manufacture of the injector isn't so critical and reliability is improved over direct injection where the fuel is squirted directly into the main combustion chamber like my Cummins licensesd B3.3NA, naturally aspired 4 cyl. in the 6530.

You could do a lot worse. If you move up to a larger frame and want toys, they have them too. My 6530 had more toys than any popular color I shopped in the N. Dallas area back in Spring 2007.

Edit. Correction on the type of PTO with the 2400H: It has the same PTO as the gear driven. For an explanation as to how the transmission PTO works, look down a couple of postings where I go through it in detail for another poster.

 

[Texasmark]

90 miles away?

Tractor dealers often charge $2.00 per mile for tractor transport in Florida.

90 miles X 4 segments (one round trip to pick up, one round trip to return) = 360 miles X $2.00 = $720 just for transportation by dealer.

On the purchase I had my 6000# 6530 delivered by the dealer free. While he was here he picked up 3 tractors I traded in.....yes traded in 3 tractors on the new purchase: JD 4010 diesel with 152 loader, MF 35 with Perkins diesel, Ford 4 cyl 4000, all nice......he brought the buyer over to check them out before he gave me a figure on the sale.

On having to take it back to the dealer for anything......I don't do that.....because I don't have to.

 

[Texasmark]

I have the 2400H with MMM & 1200X FEL

Only major problem I have experienced was the front axle was assembled incorrectly with caused the drive shaft input bearings to fail at around 30 hours. Dealer replaced the complete front axle and now at 500 hrs.

MMM: The mower weighs around 400 lbs so is a heavy beast to move. On mine the Front wheels swivel but the rears do not. I modified my rear wheels so they could be turned 90 degrees to aide in rolling the mower out. I looked a 2510 this fall at that mower had this option. To install and remove the mower on mine you must raise the front of the tractor to roll the mower out. Not sure if the new models are the same or not. I believe this mower cuts better than my X540 Deere. Not sure if it is tip speed or deck design.

2510 vs 2400H: I think these are the same tractors with 2510 having three range gear box and 2400H two range. I think the three range would be very nice for doing loader work since low range transport speed is slow and high range you are limited on ability to push into a pile.

I believe the current 00 loader has very similar specs to the 1200X. I filled my tires with Rim Guard and can carry a full bucket of dirt with out extra ballast but have very little rear tire traction. I believe the newer 00 loader also has the option of being quick tach. This was not an option when I purchased mine 5 or 6 years ago.

For dirt engagement work I use high range and still spin before stalling the tranny this is with R1 ag tires..

Would not hesitate to buy another Branson

If looking 2400 gear drive it does NOT have live PTO so any time you push in the clutch the mower would stop. 2400H Has the mechanical clutch that engages the PTO and HST. Now you can use the HST and mower does not shut off unless you push the clutch.

I just checked the www Branson site and the 2400 (H and R like mine) uses the transmission PTO with overrun clutch for both geared and hydro trannys. If you want an Independent PTO, meaning a switch controls the PTO and if the engine is running and you switch the PTO selector to ON the shaft will turn, at the specified ratio of RPMs to the engine RPMs.

On the tranny PTO you have a selector switch where you can select 2 speeds, one is the popular 540 and if the lever is in a PTO position, the 2000 rpm MMM PTO is turning also. To use the PTO, at Idle RPMs you push in the clutch and select the PTO speed desired with a lever. Upon releasing the clutch, the PTO will connect and rotate before the wheels will start turning.....just a few degrees of change in the position of the pedal which is really like what Live PTO on Fords do (with 2 clutch discs rather than one like Branson).

Upon depressing the clutch, or slowing the engine RPMs from a higher setting, the load (bush hog or whatever you are rotating) is running faster than the engine if you decelerate, or if just pushing in the clutch, you have removed drive and the load is coasting to a stop......the over run clutch makes a clicking noise (like the teeth of a saw bouncing over a stob, just like most every outboard lower unit out there in F gear). The purpose of this is to prevent the load from driving the tractor, like was the problem with early Fords, from the N series up through my 2000 to name a range. The neat thing about it is it's gear to gear drive and bullet proof!

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

There are all kinds of tractor owners. But I look at having a tractor without a trailer to move it in the same light as I would look at having a boat and no boat trailer.

I already had a truck and trailer suitable to haul my tractor around. And for the same reason that I have other "shop equipment" at my place. If I'm going to have these "things" (in this case, tractors), then I need to have the accompanying support equipment to take care of them. I don't understand how someone could have a tractor and no means to haul it anywhere. Kind of like folks that own a travel trailer, and no tow vehicle to pull it anywhere.

 

[oldnslo]

I just checked the www Branson site and the 2400 (H and R like mine) uses the transmission PTO with overrun clutch for both geared and hydro trannys. If you want an Independent PTO, meaning a switch controls the PTO and if the engine is running and you switch the PTO selector to ON the shaft will turn, at the specified ratio of RPMs to the engine RPMs.

On the tranny PTO you have a selector switch where you can select 2 speeds, one is the popular 540 and if the lever is in a PTO position, the 2000 rpm MMM PTO is turning also. To use the PTO, at Idle RPMs you push in the clutch and select the PTO speed desired with a lever. Upon releasing the clutch, the PTO will connect and rotate before the wheels will start turning.....just a few degrees of change in the position of the pedal which is really like what Live PTO on Fords do (with 2 clutch discs rather than one like Branson).

Upon depressing the clutch, or slowing the engine RPMs from a higher setting, the load (bush hog or whatever you are rotating) is running faster than the engine if you decelerate, or if just pushing in the clutch, you have removed drive and the load is coasting to a stop......the over run clutch makes a clicking noise (like the teeth of a saw bouncing over a stob, just like most every outboard lower unit out there in F gear). The purpose of this is to prevent the load from driving the tractor, like was the problem with early Fords, from the N series up through my 2000 to name a range. The neat thing about it is it's gear to gear drive and bullet proof!

For clarity:
The H model also uses the same foot pedal mechanical clutch to engage the PTO but now the HST lets you operate like a live or independent PTO. Pushing the clutch removes power from both the PTO and HST. You just have remember with clutch depressed the HST does not act like a brake.

 

[desertdog71]

Yeah it will have a trailer for sure. My F-150will pull it no problem. Trailers are handy to have around and now that I have room for my stuff, I'll have more stuff. The lawn isn't going to be very big so I don't get what the one dude keeps driving at.

I think a 2400, 2510 sized tractor will be enough, and check the right boxes. I may decide I want more later, who knows. It will be more want than need though because I don't depend on a tractor for my livelihood. To me its going to be a cool tool to have available. Like the other tools that I have.

Thanks for the good Input. Keep it coming.

 

[K5lwq]

When you go look at the 2400 and 2510, do yourself a favor and at least look at the 15 series Bransons.

As you use a tractor and learn what your needs are on the new property, you will begin to appreciate having a little more capability that comes with a heavier machine. Don't think the price difference is that unreasonable.

 

[desertdog71]

When you go look at the 2400 and 2510, do yourself a favor and at least look at the 15 series Bransons.

As you use a tractor and learn what your needs are on the new property, you will begin to appreciate having a little more capability that comes with a heavier machine. Don't think the price difference is that unreasonable.

I think its a $4-5K jump in price once you go above 25HP. Then of course bigger implements.

 

[fried1765]

"You cannot sell trailer after one trip AND have trailer available for future needs"

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!
The idea here, is that after ONE use, you could easily sell a $3,000 trailer for $2,300, OR you would instead, have a trailer that is ALWAYS available, with a net cost of only $2,300, a cost which is readily recoverable.

I live over 100 miles from the nearest tractor dealer.

I have taken two of my tractors to Canada to have meaningful mechanical work done, and complete paint jobs for both.
Total estimated saving was $6,700 USD over USA labor rates. (CAD $ is only.75 of USD, and rural Canada labor rates are very low)
Cost of my 14K equipment trailer new was $4,400.
I towed with my 1997 GMC K2500 Suburban.
Fuel cost total for both trips was just under $1,000.

So...... I am $1,300 ahead after complete payment for the trips, and trailer, and I still own a now used trailer worth at least $3400.
Saved $4,700 net......BECAUSE I have a trailer.
I did not make a special Canada trip. I owned a Summer home there.

A trailer allows one to take advantage of unforeseen opportunities.

Recently sold my dad's VW Rabbit diesel and trailered it.

For Jeff9366:

I think you may have a moderate case of trailer hate syndrome.

When you live only 8 miles from a dealer, and can get your tractor hauled for $50 each way, your reasoning is completely logical.
Most of us do not fit your personal parameters however.

In your prior post you mention the cost of a proper tow vehicle and associated vehicle expenses.
Many of us operate such a vehicle already.
Trailers do not need liability insurance, as they are covered by the towing vehicle.
Registration is $20 per year for my 14K trailer. I may spill more beer than that.

You suggest that a dealer will haul for $2.00 per mile, while the most common quote nomenclature is "per loaded mile".
I can get hauling for $3.13 per loaded mile, which would equal $1.57 per statute mile.
A deal at $2.00 per statute mile each way, = $4.00 per loaded mile, and that is not a particularly good deal.

In my post above, I neglected to mention my most recent trailer use.
In June, I bought a 2006 Kubota L48 TLB in Northern Maine.
I did not particularly want to haul it home, so got a quote.
$351 miles - $1,100.
Instead, I spent a wonderful evening on Deer Isle, Me., with an old college roommate and his wife, who provided wine, dinner, and a comfy bed.
Then brought it home myself, for $220 in gas and tolls.
Yet another meaningful trailer saving - this time - $880.