selling timber

[craigb]

I am supposed to meet a timber buyer on my property this coming weekend. I called every buyer listed in the phone books and this is the only company that said they would selective cut my lot. I own 45 acres in virginia that i plan to move to soon. I do not want to clear cut but I do have a lot of wooded areas that could loose a lot of trees without any problems and the rest would probably benefit from the thinning. Can anyone offer any advice, or questions that I should ask before signing any contract. I am slightly nervous because I will not be able to observe the day to day operation. I live 5 hrs away from my property and can only get there on the weekends. Any horror stories out there?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Craig,
Before signing any contracts, I would advise you to talk with a consulting forester.

 

[gordon]

WORDS OF WISDOM DON'T SIGN ANYTHING WITHOUT CONSULTING A FORESTER FIRST. Now with that said I could write a book on horror stories. Not saying that the company you called is not a good company but alot of firms will sub out their work and depending on how the contract is written is how or what you will end up with.

I've seen many properties Hi graded and what you end up with is not a clear cut plot but a bunch of junk wood left standing. The end result the cutters and the buyer made out like fat cats and the property owner was left with a mess and not nearly as much money as he could have or should have made.

Write into the contract as many conditions as you see fit because if you don't you will end up with the short end of the stick so to speak. The state of VA has a very good forestery division here is a link take some time on that website also click on the SAMPLE CONTRACT on that page. http://www.fw.vt.edu/forestupdate/wwwmain.htmlOnce this page comes up go to the lower right and click on the red VA forestry emblem then click on selling timber when the next page comes up hope this isn't too confusing. Thats where the sample contract is and alot of other uesful information.

Don't jump into signing a contract without having a forester come out to your property first---thats the bottom line. I could go on for hours on this. But if you prepare yourself in advance you will come out on the good end. Also you might want to consider timber taxes take alittle time to read up on that subject as well. If you have any other questions once you do some reading on the above site feel free to ask I'll help to steer you in the right direction if I can. ----Don't let the timber buyer steer you at all its your property and anything thats not in writing is nothing!!!!
Gordon

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by gordon on 9/11/00 09:24 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[richh]

DIDTOS to Gordon's post. Some where on this board there are more horror stories then you want to read. Be more than slightly nervous!!!!!
Rich

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Craig,
When someone offers to "selectively" cut timber on your property, that should be cause for you to go to DEFCON 1. Gordon's post mentions this as Hi-grading. It happens and I'd hate to see you witness to it. Your state conservation department should be able to provide you with a list of consulting foresters in your area. Another point I'd like to touch on is property ownership. Make absolutely certain you know (along with your neighbors) where the property boundaries are. By the looks of it Gordon, if not other readers, probably
has some interesting stories to tell about timber trespass. Lastly, ditto what Gordon wrote.......get it all in writing.

 

[gordon]

I like that DEFCON 1 very good point I didn't even go into the boundries or the buffer areas, landing zones, cleanup, skidder trails, any streams that have to be crossed, culverts added, cutting of unmarked trees and how much of a fine the buyer must pay, how payment is to be made and last but not least how is the board foot count going to be done.
Consult a forester and then get it in writing remember that it takes alot longer for a tree to grow back than a tomato plant so be sure on whats going to be cut and what market value of the timber is going to be before you sign.

But if you guys and gals want me to bore you with a page on each of the above I sure could.----tread lightly----
Gordon

 

[jyoutz]

Craig, I am a professional forester, however nowhere near your part of the country. BUT DO NOT DO ANYTHING WITH YOUR TIMBER WITHOUT CONSULTING A FORESTER. The first step is to contact your state forestry department for advice and maybe referral to a consultant who will help you to formulate plans, assess the stand condition and guide you in implementing practices. I spent 9+ years with my state forestry dept. advising landowners and I have never seen a timber company or logger prepared contract that had the landowner's best interests in mind. As a state forester, I would work with the landowner to assure that timber selection and harvesting was beneficial to the stand. I have been working for the federal government for the last 8 years, so I am out of touch with private lands forestry practices, but I doubt that much has changed. If you would like another referral to forestry assistance in your area, try www.safnet.org (this is the national website of the Society of American Foresters. You can find plenty of links from that site). I don't by any means want to discourage you from beneficial management practices, because you can really improve the future growth and vigor of your forest through management. I just want to affirm that forestry is a science, and practices require careful analysis and planning.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Here's a excellent example of what can happen - I am on the Board of Directors of a Shooting Facility on Northern Neck of Virginia, 188 acres. We were approached by a timber company wanting to purchase popular on our property. He made an offer in the area of $30,000. We contacted a forester who drew up specifications and marked tree to be harvested. We had included that the buyer would retrun the road to its orginial condition and had damages for unmarked trees taken. He soliciated bids, high bid was in the neighborhood of $120,000. Big difference, and the forester definitely was working for us and made himself good money in the process. I now live in Louisa County with heavy timber going on, I have a couple of acres that I wanted cleared, some good walnut and popular but I am told not enough for mobilization of equipment, thus, not much interest and dollars being offered. Waiting for other timbering in my area.

 

[Richard]

We are in last days of having our farm "selectively" cut. Though it might be "cut" selectively, they are destroying half of what trees should be left by running over them, using them as levers to change direction as they drag fallen trees. They have *specifically* in their contract that they will clean up their mess daily. Though it's clear now, I've had to dog them AND (this one really digs me) they left one of those 6 foot tall tires that they changed on their skidder in a scrap woodpile for us to burn. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif I couldn't believe their cavalier attitude about trashing someone elses land. "Just burn it" he said. I just so happened that I have been lurking around where they are working and feel free to look UNDER things. this tire was pretty well hidden, had I not been on the creek side of the pile, I would have never noticed, they definately took a (small) effort to hide it. I kinda wanted to say something about him copulating himself!!?? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

My personal land (surrounded completely by the farm) isn't part of the deal. I told them they could have my trees AS LONG as they took their time and were careful not to demolish the remaining trees. He essentially said, "If you want me to be careful, that will take too much time and I have no interest"

I'll be happy when they are done AND gone.

 

[Richard]

by the way, regarding forrester, there was a tree buying dude that had a "final offer" of $70,000 for the timber. Pop's and Uncle in laws hired forrester for 10%. Final offer dude was FURIOUS that they would't listen to him...

Auction price $171,000
Forrester 17,100

Net to elders $153,900

the "final offer" dude didn't show up for the auction, bummer.....could have had some fun maybe?