Septic System Backup Questions

[Beltzington]

Been having allot of plumbing problems lately and yesterday I am afraid I found a major one. I'm going to have the septic tank pumped tomorrow but I am wondering if it could be something more serious and what you would check.

The 25 year old house is new to me so I do not know when the tank was last serviced, what I do know was a new leaching field was installed about 8-years ago and the house sat empty for the last 6 months. When I bought the house I filled all the sinks and tub and they drained quickly I have also been flushing the toilet several times during the day on the assumption the tank may have dried because of being unused for so long and I wanted it ready to be pumped. I am renovating the master bath and bedroom and was doing one last leak test before the new sheetrock is installed which basically consisted of running the bathtub hot and cold faucets wide open for about 5-minutes ~15 gallons/minute.

The tub was draining really well but began filling up because the input was exceeding the output, my wife was in the master bath looking for leaks and begin yelling to turn off the water which I did. Going to see what she was yelling about I found the 4" main sewage line had backed up and water was flooding over the floor from the toilet flange, going back to the hallway bathroom I found water also coming from under the toilet. The kicker and what I can't understand is the tub was still draining very quickly, I assume it is possible to overwhelm a septic system but I have never seen it before. If the tank was full or there is blockage in the sewer line or leaching field it would have not continued to drain would it? I am afraid simply pumping the tank will only be a temporary solution to a more systemic problem and I certainly don't want to sheetrock and tile a bathroom only to have it ruined in a few weeks or months.

Appreciate any ideas you have.

 

[/pine]

Could there be a second system for grey water and one for waste? if so it could just be a blockage in the sewer line section?

 

[Beltzington]

No both dump into the same sewage line. Both baths connect to a straight 4" Schedule 40 PVC drain line only about 30 feet from the septic tank so the water doesn't have to far to flow before it should run into the tank.

 

[Rocky J]

After they pump tomorrow you will know it was full or not. But you might study on Septic tank health. The bacteria that you need to start in the tank when it is new and how to not kill it. Bleach is a quick way to kill the tank. You might want to check what you are dumping down the drain . Dont want to take this talk to far but when the lid comes off of that tank it should have a slow bubbling action going on. Perking if you will. If you kill or do not start that bacteria it will just be a holding tank until it gets full. They sell stuff at the store called Rid X and I am sure many others, I have flushed bread yeast off and on through the year. Kind of like making beer.http://www.rid-x.com/products/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwqfvABRC6gJ3T_4mwspoBEiQAyoQPkd89iW2LVKJ47aMPvFYJpVbaY3cA4Mq_Wlvn97aNiEYaAq0A8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[KYErik]

Sorry to hear that. Is the ground wet enough/water table high enough that the leach field might be saturated? After you pump the tank you might consider installing an outside cleanout that would allow you to snake between the house and tank and keep the mess outside if the system gets overwhelmed again.

 

[Beltzington]

I just got back from the house and with fans running all night everything is nice and dry again. While looking to see how hard it would be run a snake from the master bath into the septic tank I stumbled on what could have caused the whole problem. When I removed the toilet from the master bath I stuck on old tee-shirt in the toilet flange to keep trash out of the system. Yesterday when the water was pouring onto the floor I noticed the tee-shirt was missing but assumed my wife had removed it while trying to stop the water, nope, guess what I found at the very bottom of the pipe. It could be coincidence and it was just sucked down when the water receded but if not it would explain what happened. I will need to wait on my wife to get back from church to test it but wish me luck, I will take embarrassed over an expensive repair bill any day.

 

[/pine]

I just got back from the house and with fans running all night everything is nice and dry again. While looking to see how hard it would be run a snake from the master bath into the septic tank I stumbled on what could have caused the whole problem. When I removed the toilet from the master bath I stuck on old tee-shirt in the toilet flange to keep trash out of the system. Yesterday when the water was pouring onto the floor I noticed the tee-shirt was missing but assumed my wife had removed it while trying to stop the water, nope, guess what I found at the very bottom of the pipe. It could be coincidence and it was just sucked down when the water receded but if not it would explain what happened. I will need to wait on my wife to get back from church to test it but wish me luck, I will take embarrassed over an expensive repair bill any day.

Sounds like you've found the culprit...hope that's it...the only other simple things to check along with clean outs is the vent stacks...

 

[Beltzington]

Sounds like you've found the culprit...hope that's it...the only other simple things to check along with clean outs is the vent stacks...

Good suggestion, I hadn't considered a clogged vent but that could certainly cause erratic draining like I saw.

 

[kenmac]

maybe you found your problem. Septic systems can and will fail. The problem isn't with the tank. More times than not, it's with the field lines running from the tank. Fill lines can collapse, and or fill with solids that should have settled to the bottom of your tank.some old field lines used concrete pipe and even terracota pipe. over time these deteriorate. Grease in a septic system is a no no as well. Not really a good idea to have dish washers ,or washine machines connected to a septic system, but not much other place to drain them... Good luck

 

[Hersheyfarm]

I say it's just a build up of solids at baffle of tank. You would know if you have venting issues from other things happening. If you can get to the inlet cleanout on your tank use a stick to move solids away from baffle.

 

[Rocky J]

Just so you know you are not the only guy that suffers crapper complaints, I will share my embarrassment. My toilet was installed 20 years ago new and last year it got slow to go down. Had the tank cleaned and that was not it. Went to take up the toilet and turned the rusted bolts and broke the plastic floor flange. When I got it up it looked like a hammock under the bottom hole. It was dental floss , who would have thought of all the stuff that does go that wouldn't. I guess the china did not get all the way down that far when made and was ruff and snagged it. Trip to the store for a floor flange repair made of steel and wax ring and new bolts. Wife was pushing me to hurry when I got home and I did. Never sanded out the ruff area. Fast Forwards to last week and it was slow to go down. This time instead of turning them rusty bolts and breaking the flange I brought in the 4 inch grinder with a cut off wheel. I wrapped a wet towel around to catch the sparks and went to it. Thought the bolts were putting up a good fight then I realized the blade was wore off enough that it was the nut on the grinder against the toilet base not the stone on the bolt. While I was gathering excuses for that move ,cabinet is so close you cant see and I am getting to old for this stuff and stooped to making it all about who flushed what down there. Anyway with a new bigger stone I removed the throne to find a piece of yarn had made a new hammock . We know who did that and the grinder deal would not of happened if it was not for the yarn deal. I felt any more grinding or touching up should be done outside. They are made of fine china and it did not like concrete , it just was a pile on the porch. I drove 25 mile to get a new one. The sales person said do you know what you want, Yes I do, tallest one you got in white with the power to swallow a squirrel. We looked and found one that would do a bucket of golf balls, American Standard $225. I had the thought about the talk I got before I left about do not drag home the cheapest thing you can find. So I bought and installed this new high dollar throne with the thought of never having to remove it the rest of my life. BUT I got a defective one and no water could come through the holes around the top of the bowl. American Standard said take it up and take it back. I had to walk away after 8 hours on the job, I was feeling very ugly. No grinder on this removal, getting quicker and more careful. Took it back and returned it to get the store brand with the same specs for $88 on sale.I knew nobody would ask me anything for a week . It did as good of a job or better then the high dollar model . I learned a lot those two days, they make a plastic wing nut to fasten the toilet to the floor bolts , dont try to carry a toilet in one piece between your knees going down steps and we all get a turn.

 

[Beltzington]

Well #%#@ - Wife says she is 100% sure the rag was at the top of the pipe when the water started leaking. Going to have to start shoveling dirt, thanks for the advice.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Can't you just run your snake down flange and try to hook rag?

 

[Beltzington]

Rag has been removed it must have been sucked down when the overflow subsided, I was lucky it wasn't pulled further into the pipe. I'm back to not knowing what is wrong, I do have some things to check now. Right now I am full work avoidance mode, much easier to type than dig

 

[Larry Caldwell]

The tank had to be pumped and inspected when you bought it or no bank would ever have written a mortgage on the place. If the previous owners went 25 years without pumping the tank, it's quite possible the drainfield is plugged solid and has to be replaced, or you may just need to run a snake down the lines. Good luck.

 

[CalG]

If you are having the tank pumped, Pull the access cover and LOOK to see if the tank is full and overflowing. (I assume it is a gravity system with the tank below the sources and above the drain field.)

If the tank is not full and overflowing, the drain field is not the problem, and neither is tank flora.
If the tank liquid level is below the inlet, and there is flooding in the house, there is a blockage up stream. (A tee shirt? ;-)

Reduced to simple "plumbing", a septic system is not hard to trouble shoot.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Can not solve your problem but i do know that a towel or large rag stuck in a toilet flange opening to stop odors or prevent items from going into the sewage pipe can be sucked into the pipe. This seems to happen from flushing other commodes or full bath tubs of water bering drained. As air is sucked into the system it pulls in the rag. Ya i know their supposed to have vent pipes and the air will be sucked down the vent instead of pulling in the rag. but i have seen this happen more than once.
A clean out in the yard with a really loose cap or such will often pop the cap and allow overflow into the yard before the commode or tub will overflow. This allows you to know you got a problem before you make a mess of the house floor.

 

[Beltzington]

The tank had to be pumped and inspected when you bought it or no bank would ever have written a mortgage on the place. If the previous owners went 25 years without pumping the tank, it's quite possible the drainfield is plugged solid and has to be replaced, or you may just need to run a snake down the lines. Good luck.

Thanks - We paid cash for the house and I did not see any reason to pump it until we were ready to use it, maybe not a good decision. The septic system was done by the same local crew that replaced my system and we have had zero problems for 10-years. The previous owner was not very handy but did pay folks for upkeep until his wife passed and decided he just wanted to be rid of the house.

I am still at a loss as to what happened, this afternoon we verified all of the roof vents were not obstructed and I replicated the exact same situation which resulted in yesterdays backflow. I actually ran more water than yesterday and never saw any water in the toilet drain which overflowed yesterday. My best guess is the septic tank inlet may have had a partial blockage that was washed out and now everything is back to normal. I am hoping we can confirm this when I have the tank pumped ASAP.

 

[Sprinklerman]

Pop the lid on the tank , run some water . The intake pipe should be visible .if its not there is a field problem

 

[Citydude]

Just so you know you are not the only guy that suffers crapper complaints, I will share my embarrassment. My toilet was installed 20 years ago new and last year it got slow to go down. Had the tank cleaned and that was not it. Went to take up the toilet and turned the rusted bolts and broke the plastic floor flange. When I got it up it looked like a hammock under the bottom hole. It was dental floss , who would have thought of all the stuff that does go that wouldn't. I guess the china did not get all the way down that far when made and was ruff and snagged it. Trip to the store for a floor flange repair made of steel and wax ring and new bolts. Wife was pushing me to hurry when I got home and I did. Never sanded out the ruff area. Fast Forwards to last week and it was slow to go down. This time instead of turning them rusty bolts and breaking the flange I brought in the 4 inch grinder with a cut off wheel. I wrapped a wet towel around to catch the sparks and went to it. Thought the bolts were putting up a good fight then I realized the blade was wore off enough that it was the nut on the grinder against the toilet base not the stone on the bolt. While I was gathering excuses for that move ,cabinet is so close you cant see and I am getting to old for this stuff and stooped to making it all about who flushed what down there. Anyway with a new bigger stone I removed the throne to find a piece of yarn had made a new hammock . We know who did that and the grinder deal would not of happened if it was not for the yarn deal. I felt any more grinding or touching up should be done outside. They are made of fine china and it did not like concrete , it just was a pile on the porch. I drove 25 mile to get a new one. The sales person said do you know what you want, Yes I do, tallest one you got in white with the power to swallow a squirrel. We looked and found one that would do a bucket of golf balls, American Standard $225. I had the thought about the talk I got before I left about do not drag home the cheapest thing you can find. So I bought and installed this new high dollar throne with the thought of never having to remove it the rest of my life. BUT I got a defective one and no water could come through the holes around the top of the bowl. American Standard said take it up and take it back. I had to walk away after 8 hours on the job, I was feeling very ugly. No grinder on this removal, getting quicker and more careful. Took it back and returned it to get the store brand with the same specs for $88 on sale.I knew nobody would ask me anything for a week . It did as good of a job or better then the high dollar model . I learned a lot those two days, they make a plastic wing nut to fasten the toilet to the floor bolts , dont try to carry a toilet in one piece between your knees going down steps and we all get a turn.

thanks for the laugh!