Septic System Questions (long)

AndyM · Feb 5, 2004

We had our new house built this past spring, and I've mentioned in the past that we had problems getting the inspections passed on our septic system. Other than what I've seen them do, I'm clueless on septic systems.

First, a little background information, since septic systems vary from state to state and county to county--

The drain pipe runs out of the house into a 1000 gallon tank and then into another 1000 gallon tank. It then goes into a junction box, where you can either make the water flow to one of two leech fields, by switching a 90 degree elbow to stop the flow of water to one side or the other (you're supposed to switch the flow between each field every year). The leach fields consist of 1200 feet of PVC pipe buried 18 inched deep, surrounded by gravel (185 tons of gravel were brought in for this). There is also a curtain drain, consisting of perforated black pipe, running around the entire perimeter of both leach fields. This pipe is surrounded by gravel and is about 6 inches lower than the pipes in the leach field. The outlet for the curtain drain goes into another sump crock and the water gets pumped out to the ditch along the road.

When all of they failed inspection, it was determined by the county that the tanks and the front leach field were 6 inches too deep. The contractor dug up the front leach field, brought in more gravel and raised all of the pipe up 6 inches. Rather than dig up the tanks, they put in a sump crock and a pump to pump it up to the junction box and the leach fields.

I was outside this morning breaking up ice in the driveway, and I was interested in the fact that there was no snow on the ground above my septic tanks. For some reason (I don't know why), I walked over and took off the lid to the plastic junction box-- There was nothing flowing into the pipe leading into the front leach field. Instead, the water was rising up the extra four inches and flowing into the elbow that was pointing up, the same elbow that was supposed to stop the water from flowing into the back leach field.

This is a new system, not even a year old. Why would nothing be flowing into the pipe for the fron leach field, but instead rising up four inches higher to the higher pipe going to the back field? What would block this up so soon? I started to think it could be because of the cold wether, but if that was the case, no one's septic systems would work during the winter. Is something wrong where they're going to have to tear everything up AGAIN and repair it? Also, the water coming out at the road for the curtain drain used to be clear for the first several months, but now is a bright brown color that is staining the ditch along my road where it empties out. I originally figured it was just dirty water (clay mixed in the water?), but now I hate to speculate what it is or what is going on.

Our one year warranty on the house is up at the end of April, and I've got quite a huge list of things going already. Is there something minor that I can fix easily on this one, or do I have yet another huge headache coming up?

dummy · Feb 5, 2004

Rather than dig up the tanks, they put in a sump crock and a pump to pump it up to the junction box and the leach fields.
 From what you wrote, sounds like your pump has stopped pumping. Hopefully, the pump is easily accessible.

PhilNH5 · Feb 5, 2004

Andy,
Hard to visualise your system. But as to the brown water from your curtain drain - if it is "black water" or contaminated with septic you should be able to smell it. Stick a stick in it and then take a whiff. If it smells putrid it probably is being contaminated.

Phil

jfh230 · Feb 5, 2004

Sorry to hear of your problems. A few thoughts on this.

The snow melting over your tank lid is not a bad thing. Just means the liquid inside the tank is giving off the heat it is getting from all the nice hot showers you are taking. If the lid was covered with 4 feet of dirt then I might be curious.

If the pipes were installed 18" down and then raised 6" by the inspector that puts them at 12" below grade. Doesn't sound like much for Ohio. In general you want the pipes below the frost line. What is the frost depth where you live? Did they cover that 12" with additional dirt (mound it) to obtain the required coverage? Your ground could be frozen at that field and that is why it is backing up.

Sounds like you have a high water table with the curtain drain. Could be the water table is higher than normal and the pump can't keep up with it so the field is flooded and backing up. This would explain the brown water. As suggested before, smell it - you'll know if it's septic water or just dirty water.

Could be the contractor crushed one of the pipes leading to that field during or after he finished and that is blocking the flow. Again if the pipes are only 12" down the weight of a truck or backhoe will do that easy.

I would go on record in writing with your contractor now about a potential problem so there is no question that it occured within the warranty period.

Jack

AndyM · Feb 5, 2004

I checked and both the pump that lifts the water up to the leach fields and the pump for the curtain drain outlet are both working.

Here's a picture of the two tanks coming out of the house, the crock where the water is pumped up from, and the junction box that either diverts water to the front or back field.

AndyM · Feb 5, 2004

( If the pipes were installed 18" down and then raised 6" by the inspector that puts them at 12" below grade. )

Sorry, they were 24" inches deep and he raised them up to 18" below grade.

( Sounds like you have a high water table with the curtain drain. Could be the water table is higher than normal and the pump can't keep up with it so the field is flooded and backing up. )

I've mentioned in the past about my water problems in the front yard. The flooding is beyond my leech field, but the ground could be so saturated that it has worked its way over to the leach field?

Here's a picture I posted in another thread of my flooding problems. The sump crock in the corner is for the curtain drain, and it is as far toward the front of the property that my septic system extends.

StoneHeartFarm · Feb 5, 2004

18" sounds about right. No snow means the system is working. The snow is being melted by the hot water you are flowing into the tanks, and by the bacterial action inside the tanks generating a small amount of heat. I'm not sure I understand the elbow thing. Is there one elbow that you are supposed to disconnect and reconnect, in order to switch the fields? Or are both fields connected and one has an inlet that is higher than the other?

Yes, if the field is flooded from standing water, you won't be able to put anything down it until the standing water has gone away. It's like a coffee cup. Once it's full, you can't put anymore into it. If the ground over the field is flooded, the field will be flooded too. If that's the case, my guess would be that you may be seeing some grey water seeping from the curtain drain. (maybe. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif)

Steve

Egon · Feb 5, 2004

Remember that picyure from before when you were contemplating a pond or drainage system for that area.

Surprised you didn't have to go to a mound system.

Is the perimeter pump running at full capacity?

Egon

jfh230 · Feb 5, 2004

I don't know, 18" still seems kind of high to me for Ohio. What kind of winter have you had so far. Up here its been brutally cold (for me anyway) for extended stretches and people have been having freezing pipes that were 48" below ground. The ground frost is deeper than I have seen in a long time.

Be that as it may, looking at your photo points me in one direction - saturated drainage field due to high ground water. The level only has to get to 18" to stop your field from working which means you would not see any water ponding. Add the frozen ground and you would not get any indication on the surface either. My guess is the dainage pump can't keep up. That willow tree in the background tells me this is how it always is because those things love high water table ground. This is probably why the inspector made them raise the system up.

If it was my place I would get on the phone to the installer and the person who designed the system and if I didn't get any satisfaction I would hire a civil engineer who specializes in septic system design to review things. My gut feeling is this is not going to be an easy fix solution.

The only saving grace in this is that you have an alternate field to use so you are not shut down completely. Might want to consider asking the designer about throwing that switch and using the rear field exclusivly for now.

Keep us posted on how things go.

Jack

Junkman · Feb 5, 2004

A lot of people will say that getting the town involved is a bad thing and to keep them out of the loop at all costs. In this case, I would suggest that since it is still under warranty and there is a possibility that the "repair" is going to be very expensive, that I would contact the agency that issued the permit and have them inspect and determine what has to be done. They will put pressure on the installer and make sure that the repair is done correctly. From what I can see, you are going to have a hard problem solving this because your property is getting run off from the roadway and from your system. You will have to move the water somewhere, but from what I remember of your other post, I don't know where you are going to put it. To me, it looks like you are between the proverbial rock and a hard place with no where to go.. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif