setting barn posts in dry cement

doxhog · Mar 20, 2004

anybody have any thoughts on setting pole barn posts with two 80lb. bags of dry cement and letting the moisture from the ground harden the cement, does this work as good as premixed cement, or at least good enough? i've got no water source out to where i'm building at, Troy

Poppa · Mar 20, 2004

Your profile doesn't say where you are from. If I tried that here in Eastern CO it would take six months and a thunderstorm to set the top of the mix and the bottoms would never turn into anything more than encased dust and gravel. Seems to me if you can get a 160 pounds of cement out there plus the posts themselves then you should be able to tote 40 pounds of water (5 gal). Grab some buckets and sleep better knowing the posts are actually set instead of wondering about it every time the wind blows.

BillG_in_TX · Mar 20, 2004

Does anyone else notice that doxhog and mopower have the same writing style - and the same profile (none)?

Troll alert!

It's a shame that mopower has poisoned the well, but I think suspicion is called for here.

mopower440 · Mar 21, 2004

I aint poisoned nothing on here, what are you going to say when i post pics? Is this not what this forum is for is to ask questions or share experiences on building, give me a break, i will fill in my profile if it will make everyone happy.
here is one of the only pics i took ofthe thing way on back when i started the building of this project..

Old_Hickory · Mar 21, 2004

I done it on a deck I built.

moeh1 · Mar 21, 2004

Cement curing is a chemical reaction, rate, heat, etc, can alter the final results. I have heard of less than perfect results in many cases doing this method. Have you thought about spreading a big tarp and catching rain water, then storing in buckets or barrels. I did that for my early work before the well went in. April showers are coming soon may do the trick for you! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

EddieWalker · Mar 21, 2004

Using the dry method is fine for fence posts, but for a building that you want to last a long time I'd want the best I could afford.

Mixing your concrete before putting it in the hole is the only way to insure the maximum strength.

I also didn't have water at my site, so I brought three 5 gallon water containers with me everyday to mix my concrete. It takes more time, but the results will be much better.

DannyD · Mar 21, 2004

When the boys that I hired built my barn, they used cement but only for a bottom in the holes. They put in about 10" of cement, went to lunch and came bach to set the posts. They would line them up, center them, check for square on the outsides of the posts and then backfill with the dirt, tamping it in as they went along. Posts are solid and there is no place for water to set in around the space that concrete will leave no matter what you do. But they did have to use water to mix with. I might want to mention, these boys also built their own barns this way, and I have seen them and they are still standing

rambler · Mar 22, 2004

Not that I believe any pole barn threads any more, but the info supplied is at least helpful to others reading. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

In the cold & hot & wet of my climate, concrete is not a good idea at all to encase wood poles. Either put a small footer at the bottom of the pole deep - don't bring it up to the surface - or build a concrete wall or peirs & attach your poles to the top of the concrete above ground.

Perhaps what you suggest works in your climate, but it would not in mine. Food for thought.

--->Paul

jmc · Mar 22, 2004

doxhog,

At that depth around here its red clay that is always damp. Morton just built my barn and they put the cement in dry. This is the second building they have built for me and in my opinion, they are extremely competent and conscientious. When I asked them about it, you could tell they get asked alot and said they would use water if it made me feel better. In the end, I relied on their experience(which may vary locally)

John

MMILLER · Mar 22, 2004

If this is the method that Morton uses you can believe it is a good one. From what I understand about there pole buildings they have one of the best warranties on the market But for us do it your self types a little info, a big dessision and a lifetime of living with it. It all boils down on to your choice after weighting information.

Gatorboy · Mar 22, 2004

I wouldn't use cement at all -- cement will cause your posts to decay faster. Just place a concrete patio stone in the bottom of your hole, nail a 12" board to the bottom of your post to create a T and set that into the hole. This will prevent the posts from being able to lift out. Then just backfill with rock.

This should be all you need.

EastTexFrank · Mar 22, 2004

I've used the "dry method" to set fence posts and the likes but I'd be reluctant to use it on anything like a pole barn. What would worry me about it is that the cement in contact with the soil would absorb/react with the water first and start to set up, effectively restricting water from contacting the cement around the pole. If water did perculate through over time, the quality of the cement would be very poor. That wouldn't be a big concern on a fence post but a pole barn?

What I do on permanent structres is hammer in a couple of big nails in the bottom of the post and surround that with some premixed cement, them backfill and tamp the dirt back in the hole. I don't know if it is the best method but it's worked so far.

Soundguy · Mar 22, 2004

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( This will prevent the posts from being able to lift out. )</font>

It takes alot to snatch a post out, as long as there is any horizontal force on it. Straight up.. they can be lifted out.. put some horizontal pressure on them, and then they really stick. That's why they call them 'friction piles'... I would think you would do better to backfill with soil as it will provide more adhesion than gravel.. but that is only my .02$ ( The voids in the gravel will fill in in time anyway.. )

Soundguy

DannyD · Mar 22, 2004

Is that not what I said they did. The concrete was the footer, soil tamped back in around it and they are stuck

SPIKER · Mar 22, 2004

I would not do it that way, you can buy premade concrete waffers, that are 12~24" dia and are 8~12" thick. which are MADE for this reason, any place that is selling pole barn kits will have them and they are cheaper than the bagged concrete! no muss fuss or extra work of mixing. just drill & drop them in the hole. drop the post on top and bang the pad about 4 or 5 times to SEt the concrete waffer in a level looking condition. then get in the poles held into the level plumb and straight woth a string down the sides. at that point begin backfilling maiantaining the flat & string level sides. DON'T use the mix dry for the poles at all, and that is barely ok for fence posts as the water mix and chemical cure will not happen corectly when done this way.

Mark M

TBAR · Mar 23, 2004

I set the poles of my pole shead in the holes and poored two bags of dry concrete in each hole..........................but then I also had a foot of water standing in them so I sort of mixed it as I went.

One thing I was concerned about was condensation accumulating in the poles or ground water seeping into them. FWIW I also poored concrete down the poles to a level of 3-4 feet above the ground(PIA) and drilled an 3/16" hole above that to drain anything that accumulated. I did the same with the OHC poles.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/43399132/43410414tPKDmZ

TBAR