Setting Well Pressure

[beowulf]

Egon, but tank is new - just installed.

I did not think of a leaking downhole foot valve - I knew there was one there but that is about the extent of my knowledge. If I can't figure this out, I guess next step is to pull the pump? A real PITA, as 420' of pipe, but if it has to be done it has to be done. Living with a wife who does not have water is also difficult.

 

[Xfaxman]

What does the pressure gage show while the pump is doing the on-off routine?

If it is jumping from 40 to 60 - 40 to 60 there is no air in the tank.

 

[Carl_NH]

So new tank set @ 38 PSI pre-charge pressure (no water in tank) new switch 40-60 pump still short cycles after 60 seconds off. As Pillion stated clogged switch pipe - make sure you have brass not galvanized 1/4" pipe to the pressure switch as galv will corrode/rust shut eventually.

Second as Egon stated the downhole foot valve has failed allowing water to leak down. Simple solution is to add a brass check valve before the tank tee 1" or 1 1/4" size to prevent the drain down. If this fixes it then then pump check valve is bad but it will still work holding the water in the tank.

If this doesnt fix it, then the line between the tank and the pump is leaking, so the next step would be pull up the pump from the pitless adapter (top of the well head) and put a check valve in the line there - this would mean you have a leak between the top of the well and the tank.

Pulling the pump up 6-10' to put in a check valve at the pitless adapter is not hard - just get a 1" threaded pipe and make a Tee on the top wide enough so to prevent the pump from dropping, then pull the pump up a few feet to add that check valve. Also it possible that the pipe in the well has a hole in it - this is worst case and you would need to pull the pump and replace the pipe.

Good luck in solving your problems!

Carl

 

[Carl_NH]

Also - shut off the water supply to the house when doing this and if you don't have a spigot attached to the tank tee add one so you can open as the tank is filling and simulate the water draw from the house and test the switch etc.

 

[beowulf]

Okay, progress and maybe a complete fix. I have been setting my pressure switch settings (40-60) by reference to the pressure gauge. And I was puzzled that I would need to do that to the degree that I did since the pressure switches come preset - should not require much tinkering.

But when I started having problems with the well, the first thing I checked was the pressure switch settings and saw that they were not working as expected - based on the gauge readings - so I adjusted the settings (actually how to set that switch was the inquiry in my OP). Anyway, since I have tried everything else I know how to do and a few things I don't know much about, I remembered that I had an extra pressure gauge in the barn. Why not try that? I replaced the pressure gauge and turned the power on. It started but the new pressure gauge readings were at the very low end and no way matched the readings I had with the old gauge. I had apparently - using the old and defective gauge as a reference - really messed up the pressure switch settings.

So, with the new gauge as a reference I reset the pressure switch settings (40-60) and voila it seems like all is working well now. Because the old pressure switch was defective and because I was using it as my reference I had reset the settings way, way off. And because the old gauge would not hold a reading, that explains why I would immediately see the pressure start to drop even when it was not dropping. And my settings were not being calibrated to the tank pre-charged setting either.

So, anyway, I hope this helps someone if they have similar problems and I guess it is important to check the simple things first. I plan on keeping another pressure gauge around and to check mine out from time to time.

Hopefully, I am good to go and wife is happy. A long day though.

 

[Carl_NH]

Well Done - No Pun intended - as they say check the simple things first!

As a rule I check the pre-charge tanks (we have two) pressure each spring and fall when I turn on/off the irrigation and change the house and irrigation system filters and gauge at the same time.

 

[beowulf]

As a rule I check the pre-charge tanks (we have two) pressure each spring and fall when I turn on/off the irrigation and change the house and irrigation system filters and gauge at the same time.

That is a nice habit - I will check my tanks and change the gauge in a similar fashion.

 

[Valveman]

Sorry I am late to this. But the wrong pressure settings can cause a quick on/off on/off like that. It is when the pump starts at a lower pressure than the air pre-charge in the tank. 38 PSI air with a 37/57 switch setting will cause that problem as the diaphragm hits the tank bottom before the pump starts. Glad you got it going.

 

[PILOON]

One reply suggested a possible leaking foot valve.
My 'work around' (who wants to pull a pump) is to add an inline check valve just ahead of the pressure switch. That way you totally isolate the control and tank and the pump will only restart only when the tank pressure is down.
In fact this method can withstand a reasonable line loss and prevent pump damage.
There will be but a minor delay B4 water gets back up to the tank.
Downside is you could get some splash when opening a tap due to some air that gets pushed into the tank.

I have used this 'work around' when the trouble occurs mid winter, Like who wants to thaw frozen soil or handle water at 20 below.

 

[turnkey4099]

Well, (no pun intended) I am back. I have replaced the pressure tank and the check valve - both were over 30 years old.

Before I did that there was a dull pulsing in the pipes in the house (not quite a banging) - the pace of the pulses would be about as you can say "on-off", "on-off" over and over at a normal speaking rate. When that happened I went to the well, heard the contacts hitting on and off at the same pace, removed the cover and observed them doing that. I than chatted with a local contractor and was told it could be the pressure tank or the check valve. So, because they were over 30 years old and I did not want things to go South on the wife when I am not here, I bought and replaced the tank and the check valve. The pressure switch was not replaced at this time but it is fairly new - maybe 3-4 months old. The pressure gauge is older.

So, after did all this, I double checked everything, and then turned on a bib to bleed air, then turned on the electricity and pump started up, and I adjusted the pressure switch to 40-60 settings. All seemed to be going well as pump was on and pressure mounted up to 60 and shut off. Then over a period of about 60 seconds the pressure would drop (not smoothly but a bit jerkily) down to 40 when it would turn on again BUT when it went on the same problems resurfaced, i.e., the contacts hit on and off and on and off continually as fast as you can say on-off, on-off. I cut the power off and then on, and it ran smoothly up to 60 lbs, shut off, and then again over about 60 seconds the pressure dropped to 40 and then the on-off, on-off happened again.

So, after a new tank and new check valve the same thing is happening. So, Valveman, or anyone else, can you help me understand what is happening? I am thinking about heading to town to get a new pressure switch but it is sort of new, and I am not certain what could go wrong with that - but really don't know. The pressure gauge itself I think is only a device so you know what the pressure is, not otherwise functional?

So, all that is left is the pump - but it is pumping water - but maybe not as it should? Everything seems to work until it hits the 40 pound cut in, and when it then turns on it is on-off, on-off, on-off until I cut the power.

Certainly hope you guys have some ideas - I have reached the top of my learning curve at the moment, but will start researching.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Why it is short cycling like that I have no idea, but the pressure bleeding down says you have a leak somewhere.