Shallow well pump performance?

[Pumpmd]

Where are you up there? Somewhere near East Tawas? My Brother-in-law has a cabin in South Branch. His well is way over 100' deep and has a sub in it. I drilled a few wells in the Harrison area up there years ago.

One thing to remember when looking for a pump. Make sure the motor is totally separate from the pump. It should be the old style, C-Flange or Square flange. Nothing that has fins on it. All the imports I have sadly became familiar with don't hold up much past the years warranty. And if the motor gets noisy, the two I mentioned have "REAL" ball bearings not bushings. Take it to a motor shop and have the bearings replaced.

Hi Speedbump. Sounds like my Maytag 3000 series dryer. The **** thing was squeaking loud after about 3yrs of use from the idler pulley Wheel and Bearing "bearing bushing".

 

[Dutch445]

From the run times you stated, the biggest problem you have is well production. It should fill that tank between 30 and 50 lbs in less than a minute if the well produces good.

I was wondering the same thing. My experience with a shallow well with this type of pump was poor, we had a 45' deep drilled well, about 20' from the house. during the 8 years i lived in that house, we learned to manage with low reserve, quick showers, and managed when laundry was done vs dishes vs whatever.

at the time i sold the home last year, i knew it was going to be an issue. my thought was to try a submersible pump (110v) with the idea that the submersible would
pump from the bottom of the well and we hoped recovery was better at the bottom. everything i read and was told was that the inside jet pump could only pull water from 25' deep (or 26). once the water in
the well dropped to a certain point, the pump would continue to run because it didn't have the strength to "PULL" the water up with enough volume to satisfy
the cutoff switch. if it would continue to run too long, i had to run down and kill the breaker and let the well recover a bit then start it back up. we would never run
out or suck air due to the water always being above the pickup, but after a long time running the pump you could tell the pump wasn't happy.

as the sale of the house progressed, and the submersible pump didn't improve volume, i had to install an inside storage tank system with UV to satisfy the
bank requirements.

in this case with the OP what is the height difference from your pump to the static water level? and then how low does the water level drop as you are running your garden hose?

 

[the old grind]

I doubt that my static level ever falls very low, that my well (-pipe) is more than 15' deep, or that it is anything but a cavity for a point/ft-valve that's fed entirely from the stone pit (16'x18'), so apples to oranges I guess. I'd say my static level has never been less than 5' or more than 10' below the pump itself in my 15 yrs here and with the 3rd pump. Horizontal distance 'point to pump' is ~26'.

My flow problem has never been more than asking a single stage pump to do too much. (Of course I get great flow/pressure from the tank until it empties) I've never drawn air or sand into a pump or the filter/housing that I know of.

Dutch, I wish there was more info here that'd help you, but we just seem to have very different water sources and circumstances. Now I feel guilty thinking that I'm the one who 'might-could' use a submersible in a shallow well and perhaps not overdraw it.

btw, What I called a 'cap' is actually a plug with a 4 1/2" dia thread. I'm going to work on getting that off ... (we'll see what that takes :laughing and get a camera down there if I can't see(/pull) enough right away.

 

[speedbump]

Hi Speedbump. Sounds like my Maytag 3000 series dryer. The **** thing was squeaking loud after about 3yrs of use from the idler pulley Wheel and Bearing "bearing bushing".

I can relate to that. My Wife has used a few of those washers over the years until I was browbeat into getting off some money for a new one.

I was wondering the same thing. My experience with a shallow well with this type of pump was poor, we had a 45' deep drilled well, about 20' from the house. during the 8 years i lived in that house, we learned to manage with low reserve, quick showers, and managed when laundry was done vs dishes vs whatever.

A shallow well jet pump can lift water 25' vertically. That is it's max lifting ability. If the well doesn't keep up with what the pump wants and you have droppipe in the well that will allow the level to drop. It will go down to 25' and stay there as long as you use water. Once you stop using the water, the pump will keep pulling until it gets up in pressure which will slow it's ability to produce volume down and the level will come up slowly as the pump recovers to shut off. With a direct vacuum like hooking the pump directly to the casing, the pump will pull a vacuum and get exactly what the well will let it have and no more. When putting droppipe down a well, we would always install 30'. That way the water level could never get down far enough to allow the pump to draw air and lose it's prime.

 

[buickanddeere]

Shallow well pump lifting 25 feet will use much more electricity per gallon than a two stage shallow submersible pump.

 

[speedbump]

But the two stage 4" submersible pump has a maximum pressure of only ~28 lbs.

 

[the old grind]

As I understand it, a centrifugal pump will deliver max pressure at 0' of head, or max head at negligible volume/pressure. What you get is what trade-off works in a particular application, but that can confound selection if use is varied enough (mine sure is) and not just extreme enough.

A water column (height) of 33' exerts 1 atm of pressure. If we try to draw from much more than 25' we're asking for cavitation. Why the numbers don't match exactly must be due to inevitable friction losses and inefficiency of the pump. (not PD)

Wayne and Sta-Rite seem to have the two-stage and other higher pressure S-W pumps.

Not to stray OT laughing but I'm already looking at 'subs' again. Grundfos has several in the 3" QS lineup for <$1k. I suspect the 'depth/head' numbers mean a different number of pump stages. If used in a shallow well (~10' static level, here) I don't see why a 5gpm, even 1/2 hp wouldn't put my centrifugal to shame.

That said, can't rule out going cheap for a 'sub' tryout at a depth I can pull a pump from by myself. I've got a weed-burner torch, a HFT IR thermometer, and plenty of canning paraffin to work on loosening the iron plug/cap. Wish me luck on that.

 

[speedbump]

Head is the vertical distance in feet plus the desired pressure. To convert pressure to head; multiply pressure X 2.3.
The only two stage shallow well pumps I have seen are two stage convertible jets with a shallow well ejector bolted on the front. Centrifugal's are normally single stage also. With more impellers (stages) you get more pressure, but less volume. There is always a trade off.

 

[buickanddeere]

But the two stage 4" submersible pump has a maximum pressure of only ~28 lbs.

Other Pump charts I looked at had approx 50psi per stage on a 4 inch submersible . Whatever they are a 12 stage pump is not required if a four stage pump in a shallow well can dead head 100psi at the well tank.

 

[speedbump]

I'm not sure if you and I are calling a stage the same thing. But a four inch submersible pump has impellers of less than 4" in diameter. The pressure that any four inch impeller can make is dependent on it's diameter and it's speed. At 3450 RPM's a 4" impeller (which is around 3-1/2" in diameter) can make very close to 14 lbs. Each subsequent impeller in the stack adds another 14 lbs.