Shallow Well to Feed Pond

[JimMorrissey]

I'm thinking about digging a shallow (10') well to feed our old pond that was abandoned years ago, due to lack of interest by the old owners. It has a deeded water supply from a spring way up on the hill that was dammed up. I have no idea where that location once was or is. The hill behind us (old pasture) has since been developed, and without a lengthy legal battle I don't see exercising my deeded rights to have a pipe to the pond. That would mean running my pipe right through peoples yards /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Anyway, my thought is that I could dig a pit and sink some kind of concrete or plastic colvert into the hole....so the colvert would be standing on its end. Prior to dropping it in, I'd punch a bunch of holes in it to let the water flow into the tube. I'm thinking about a standard colvert approx. 3' or 4' in diameter and nine feet long, which would hold about 350 gallons at a time when full. Some type of pump would be put into the hole to move the water to the pond. The well and pump would be about 350' from the pond and the elevation change is about 10-12'.

The land is very wet at the lower part of the property (natural spring?) and a far side neighbor has started to divert a substantial amount of runoff onto a lower area of my property not too far away. I'd like to take advantage of my neighbor's poor dainage planning and let gravity flow the water from the neighbors to the well as an additional supply. I would have to pipe it from about 175' from the side neighbor to the proposed shallow well.

The pond in question is pretty large ( 150' x 140' x 15' x 7.48) about 150,000 gallons. Is it crazy to think that I could keep a pond of this size fed with an electric pump? The colvert/well with 350 gallons full would need to be pumped out nearly 500 times to fill the pond. The core issues seem to be how fast the colvert can refill itself and how good the pond is at holding water. I guess the question then comes down to electricity, and would this be a crazy way to fill a pond and maintain its level.

How much electricity would it take to pump 160,000 gallons....350 feet @ 12' of elevation change? What kind of pump should I be looking at? Is solar a possible soluton to power the pump?

Lots of questions....sorry about the ramble.

 

[Darren]

Solar is a solution. One of the local farmers got a grant from the USDA to pay for a solar pump and cistern. He paid for the well. He now has a good setup for watering stock in a remote pasture.

You didn't mention why the pond was abandoned. Can you share that info?

Another concern if developed in your case means lots of new houses uphill from the pond is nutrient runoff. Over use of fertilizers on lawns is very common. Very few folks actually get soil tests to determine if fertilizer is needed and what kind.

Most of the fertilizer is wasted when it runs off. If that happens and you end up with the stuff in your pond, you'll have an algae bloom followed by the stink when it dies and rots. All you need is a couple of fervent Scotts users upstream, in a manner of speaking, from your pond. That's not an unmanageable problem but it depends on how much effort you want to spend.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Darren,

I think the pond was abandoned due to lack of interest. The old folks that we bought the place from said to me one time "can you imagine why somebody would want to have a pond on their property". I was amazed that somebody would think this way, but to each his own. I think they just let it go. They didn't do much around here, but that's good, because we were able to afford it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nitrogen might be a problem. I'm mainly looking for a place for my kids to play hockey and enjoy the birds/wildlife rather than swim or play in the water. Rotten aquatic matter is not very appealing though.

 

[Darren]

Is there any water in the pond now?

 

[JimMorrissey]

Yeah, there's an area about 20x50x8 that has water in it. I waded in up to my chest and could keep going down /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[WCarlson]

Jim,
I don't understand the fourth measurement you provided on your pond. </font><font color="blue" class="small">( The pond in question is pretty large ( 150' x 140' x 15' x 7.48) about 150,000 gallons.)</font> Either your measurements or your math are incorrect. I have a 100 ft by 70 ft pond that is 11 ft deep in the center and have about 577,500 gal of water. If yours is 140' x 150' with a max depth of 15' I hold it to be .48 acres with an average depth of 7.5 feet which computes to about 3.6 acre feet of water. An acre foot contains 325,851 gal. So unless I am mistaken your pond will hold nearly 1,170,000 gal. Your feeding a pond of that size with a 360 gal source is pretty questionable.
Bill

 

[JimMorrissey]

Bill maybe so.....It did sound a bit on the light side. Here's how I calculated it.

150' long x 140' wide x 15' average depth. I then multiplied that cubic footage by 7.48 gallons per cubic foot, incorrect....Yes, thanks for double checking my math. I should be 2,350,000 gallons. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif That is a lot of water for a pump.

I'll have to get a better average depth. I'll take three measurements and average them.

 

[L3650]

Good luck running the pipe through several backyards! At the very least, you will be putting in or paying for at least one or two new lawns.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Yeah, that's why I said I wasnt' going to do it.

 

[WCarlson]

Jim,
The conventional method of measuring a pond is to compute the acreage then the average depth then determine the number of acre feet of water and converting to gallons. Because of the normal pond going from the deepest point to zero depth at the edge in a relatively gradual manner, I use half the deepest point as the average. Some of the books on pond management recommend using 0.4 times the deepest point. Either way you are talking about a large amount of water to supply for the initial fill. Once it is filled, rain and runoff are available to supplement what ever you get out of the well, which after a fill only has to compensate for leakage and evaporation.
I planned on a shallow well using gravity feed in a place uphill of my pond that remains wet even during very dry periods, I ended up having a dedicated well dug to supplement the pond during dry spells. My "shallow" well ended up 225' deep which is 50 feet deeper than my primary source of water for the house, both wells provide over 25 gal per minute. The issue became where can you get the massive rigs that are used to dig modern wells. Once the rig is in place they dig until they get the amount of water you need, they run out of drill pipe, or you run out of $.
Good luck,
Bill

 

[Darren]

One of the problems when drilling a well is the geology in your area. Going deeper in West Virginia is no guarantee you'll find water unless you go deep enough, 4,000', to hit salt water. Going deeper most times in this area just provides a bigger reservoir in the ground. I've got one that stores 400 gal. If you're going to hit water, you're not talking hundreds of feet in this area. The problem is the amount of water you find often isn't enough flow for a good well.

If you can figure the surface area of your pond, you should be able to ballpark the amount of water that will be lost to evaporation. That will tell you how much flow you need to eventually fill the pond. It might take awhile but it will fill if the well can produce a flow greater than the losses.

The fact you already have water in the pond shows that there's an equilibrium between the runoff and rain filling the pond and the seepage and evaporation losses. All you have to do is increase the inflow recognizing that with a greater surface area you'll have more losses.

 

[OkeeDon]

The only thing I can relate is the experience I've had, and let you extrapolate the differences.

Florida land is sand. Our ponds are dug and fill from the bottom, depending on the height of the water table. After a good rain, our pond is nearly full -- within 12" of the surrounding land. When we go through a dry spell, the water table, and thus the level of the pond, drops as much as 6'.

My pond is small, about 110' x 115' x 6' average depth (at a guess). Attached is a picture shortly after we had it dug. This is the typical water table level when it has been relatively dry.

 

[OkeeDon]

I wanted to maintain it at a much higher level regardless of where the water table is. I talked to my well guy, and he recommended a 6" well with a 1 HP submersible pump. The pump will supply a steady 25 gallons/minute. Our well came it with a capability of about 75 gallons/minute, so if I need to once the house and barn are built, I can go to a higher HP pump.

I ran a 1-1/2" PVC line from the well to the pond (about 400' or so) and installed a Hudson float valve Hudon float valve to automatically maintain the level. Attached is a picture of the pond after the valve was installed.

The initial fill took 3 days (72 hours) of constant running at the full flow of the valve (something less than 25 gallons/minute) to bring it up to this level. Since then, the well runs a couple of hours per day to maintain the level versus the seepage through the sandy soil. The system works very nicely.

However, currently I have it turned off, because we're not living there yet, and it seems like a waste to maintain the level when no one can see it. I did keep it on for several months to try to determine the cost; it looks as if it will run about $30/month to maintain the water level year round. We're planning on a 1/2 HP fountain in the pond, and estimate that will run another $30/month.

 

[MadDog]

A "deeded water supply" sounds like your right to take water from the spring is something that appears in the record title to whatever neighbor's land the spring is located on.

I am inclined to agree with you that insisting on your rights, now that the neighborhood has been developed, is not going to create neighborly feelings. On the other hand, your water rights, if they appear as an encumbrance on your neighbor's title, are something that can adversely affect the value of his land when he goes to resell it. Maybe you can get SOME benefit out of the situation by telling him that you don't want to insist on your rights and are willing to release the encumbrance on his property. If you aren't asking him to pay you for doing that, he ought to be pretty appreciative.

Regarding the shallow well, I sank three shallow wells (by driven points, rather than digging a pit and lining with a culvert) about 10 years ago. They have been inconsistent performers and I am going to have a deep water well driven to supply the pond that I am currently excavating, as well as to supply irrigation to vegetable fields.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Don,

Nice pond. Good info on montly costs.

Thanks.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Our last well in rural VT was over 1,000 feet deep in order to provide enough water for our family. I was not happy when I got the bill, as you can imagine. Once you go that deep everything changes...pumps, wire, pipe....$$$$$

This area has pretty good flows (I checked the well logs) @ about 200 feet. If we need to we'll just drill a well.

 

[frank_f15]

i was wondering the same thing? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[JimMorrissey]

Mad,

Yeah, we most definitely have the right to "repair and replace" the old pond, dam and pipeline back to our property. I think the neighbors property has (or should have) wording to the "penstock and pipeline" that the Davis farm (our old house) and all future parties have access to, including the right to repair and replace the dam. They'd likely come after us with torches and pitch forks some evening if we tried to exercise the water rights.

I see some dollars to be made by threatening them with the encumbrance. Kidding /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[JimMorrissey]

Did you read my reply. Yes, I made a mistake. The math still works out. Lenght x width x average depth x 7.5 equal gallons. The total gallons was a typo.