Shared Roads and other issues.

[pennwalk]

Is it possible that there are stakes or pins marking the property corners? I believe that it is a lot less expensive if the surveyor comes in and locates existing pins as opposed to a real survey.

Chris

 

[sanmigmike]

We know where some of the pins are located, some of them seem to gone bye-bye and the property next door that was on the market was just surveyed so we are going to find out who did that and see if it might be a tiny bit cheaper to use them.

At this point (I really hope I am wrong) I tend to think we are going to have to go to court to deal with him, maybe we can recover our costs??

The location of the pins and the survey on the property up for sale is really what convinced me that he is indeed on our property.

The funny thing is that until he complained about a political sign by the road that we had posted, it never occured to me that he was "stealing" my property. We then measured off the distance to our "flag" and then found out that he was taking our property as well as the other neighbors. The funnier thing is that he was a rabid supporter of the other guy but he is Austrian, not American and as long as they have been here he and his wife have never got American citizenship. If he had stayed out of American politics he would still be stealing from me without a problem.

 

[sanmigmike]

We know where some of the pins are located, some of them seem to gone bye-bye and the property next door that was on the market was just surveyed so we are going to find out who did that and see if it might be a tiny bit cheaper to use them.

At this point (I really hope I am wrong) I tend to think we are going to have to go to court to deal with him, maybe we can recover our costs??

The location of the pins and the survey on the property up for sale is really what convinced me that he is indeed on our property.

The funny thing is that until he complained about a political sign by the road that we had posted, it never occured to me that he was "stealing" my property. We then measured off the distance to our "flag" and then found out that he was taking our property as well as the other neighbors. The funnier thing is that he was a rabid supporter of the other guy but he is Austrian, not American and as long as they have been here he and his wife have never got American citizenship. If he had stayed out of American politics he would still be stealing from me without a problem.

 

[rox]

I am not 100% sure I am able to visualize the lots.

if ti is not too much trouble could you possible sketch something out in Paintshop and save it as a .jpg file and post it.

What I'm not clear about is that you have a different 20ft strip that can et you out to the road that neighbor A is growing grapes on? Is that correct?

Currently the existig road all 3 of you have an easement to cross the property of the others. In hindsight before I would have boughten that gravel for "my" portion of the road that you bought a few years back, you could have had this discussion at that time. You didn't ask and nobody contributed to that part you repaired.

Do you think things would work out better if you asked neighbors C & A to a face to face meting with your lawyer in his/her office. That might be better than a letter from the attorney. A meeting with the lawyer might be just what is needed to get everybody talking with each other. And the only way this is going to work out even half way decent is if you are all able to talk about it, together.

Perhaps your approach can be, the surveyor finished so with this latest information can we all get together and work out a plan that is good for everybody?

We are fortunate, we just had lunch today at our hosue with 2 of our neighbors. A coupel weeks ago we had a different neighbor over for dinner. We own a parcel fo land maybe a couple acres that is not attached to our main property. It was these neighbors we had over for lunch. After lunch they ask us to walk back with them to their house, they want to show us some property we own that we didn't know about. Turns out we own a little patch of land that the neighbor has been using for parking. That was really nice, if he wouldn't have done that we would never have known about it.

We have made an effort to be on a first name basis with our neighbors and be friendly, but not "in their business."

We do have one neighbor who is a PIA but even him we manage to get along with okay. Do you think it is possible to turn this guy? Instead of being advisarial is there any hope as Eddie Walker said to kill them with kindness.

It is a long hard road when neighbors become adversaries. I would even suggest that after the survey that you invite A & B to lunch in town first then see your lawyer after lunch.

You jsut don't know, neighbor A may not have the $$ to fix the road. What may seem like an ordinary expense to you might be an extraordiany expense to him. All right he's an xxhole, but look Eddie Walker managed to get a diverse group together and get it done amicably. You owe it to yourself to at least try the carrot before you pull out the stick.

You sound very very very reasonable adn I cna't fault your approaches thus far, far from it. Can you go one step further?

 

[rox]

I am not 100% sure I am able to visualize the lots.

if ti is not too much trouble could you possible sketch something out in Paintshop and save it as a .jpg file and post it.

What I'm not clear about is that you have a different 20ft strip that can et you out to the road that neighbor A is growing grapes on? Is that correct?

Currently the existig road all 3 of you have an easement to cross the property of the others. In hindsight before I would have boughten that gravel for "my" portion of the road that you bought a few years back, you could have had this discussion at that time. You didn't ask and nobody contributed to that part you repaired.

Do you think things would work out better if you asked neighbors C & A to a face to face meting with your lawyer in his/her office. That might be better than a letter from the attorney. A meeting with the lawyer might be just what is needed to get everybody talking with each other. And the only way this is going to work out even half way decent is if you are all able to talk about it, together.

Perhaps your approach can be, the surveyor finished so with this latest information can we all get together and work out a plan that is good for everybody?

We are fortunate, we just had lunch today at our hosue with 2 of our neighbors. A coupel weeks ago we had a different neighbor over for dinner. We own a parcel fo land maybe a couple acres that is not attached to our main property. It was these neighbors we had over for lunch. After lunch they ask us to walk back with them to their house, they want to show us some property we own that we didn't know about. Turns out we own a little patch of land that the neighbor has been using for parking. That was really nice, if he wouldn't have done that we would never have known about it.

We have made an effort to be on a first name basis with our neighbors and be friendly, but not "in their business."

We do have one neighbor who is a PIA but even him we manage to get along with okay. Do you think it is possible to turn this guy? Instead of being advisarial is there any hope as Eddie Walker said to kill them with kindness.

It is a long hard road when neighbors become adversaries. I would even suggest that after the survey that you invite A & B to lunch in town first then see your lawyer after lunch.

You jsut don't know, neighbor A may not have the $$ to fix the road. What may seem like an ordinary expense to you might be an extraordiany expense to him. All right he's an xxhole, but look Eddie Walker managed to get a diverse group together and get it done amicably. You owe it to yourself to at least try the carrot before you pull out the stick.

You sound very very very reasonable adn I cna't fault your approaches thus far, far from it. Can you go one step further?

 

[EddieWalker]

How long have you had the property and do you have title insurance?

Before you can get title insurance, don't you have to have a survey? Did you get a loan for the land and title insurance?

In one instance that I know of, the neighbor had built their house just over the property line and the survey corners were moved. A survey was done and then the other owner also had a survey done to confirm the results.

Both surveys said the house was across the line. The title company was contacted and they refused to do anything. The lawers got involvled and the title company changed there tune. Said they would handle all the expenses but wouldn't refund the amount paid for the land.

The property lines were redrawn with the same amount of land restored, but the line was changed.

In the end, everyone was happy, but it took some serious threats tot the title company to fix it.

Don't know if this helps you any or not,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

How long have you had the property and do you have title insurance?

Before you can get title insurance, don't you have to have a survey? Did you get a loan for the land and title insurance?

In one instance that I know of, the neighbor had built their house just over the property line and the survey corners were moved. A survey was done and then the other owner also had a survey done to confirm the results.

Both surveys said the house was across the line. The title company was contacted and they refused to do anything. The lawers got involvled and the title company changed there tune. Said they would handle all the expenses but wouldn't refund the amount paid for the land.

The property lines were redrawn with the same amount of land restored, but the line was changed.

In the end, everyone was happy, but it took some serious threats tot the title company to fix it.

Don't know if this helps you any or not,
Eddie

 

[sanmigmike]

Right now his portion of the road is still a mess, we are making arrangments to have the "flag" portion of the lot (the 20 foot wide road of ours and the 20 foot road for the other neighbor) surveyed and then see what he says. It does indeed have grapes growing on it and he owns parcels on both sides so it will be painful for him to give up using it for free.

Not sure why it was done but indeed we have an easement to the public road over his property and so does our neighbor, the way it looks to me in the deed is all three of us have an easement over all three parcels. Don't know why. It was divided about 30 or 40 years ago.

The other neighbor and I both have 20 foot wide flag poles on the other side of the property that is not an easment. A pain.

He is grinning and waving to the wife and kids when they drive by?

 

[Parttimer]

In response to why it was cut in that way, It was all one piece at one time 30-40 years ago which you have said. The original property owner may have cut it to sell off or for family or for monies. The 20' strips are reserved for "real" ownership to the road's Right-of Way. The easement is usually used to minimize how many "driveways/roads" are cut in and minimize disturbace for sediment up-keep, drainage etc. Good way to do it if all are amicable. Not always the real world. Good forthought to include the reserve strip of land to the ROW.

Not going to make it easy to sell if you do not pacify your abutter "A" in some way. Good luck with your mission.

There are so many diferent rules, My wifes parents live in south central PA. There is a road that traverses there 200+ acres. They own the land and the road is set up as an easment for purposes of rights of passage. They do not have to up-keep the road, the township does this. But the whole thing makes me nervouse with liability.

 

[sendero]

I hope it works out for you.

I have a shared road also, my 40 acres being a land-locked parcel 3/4 of a mile from the country road.

In my county, you have to OWN a 30 foot easement from your parcel to a country road. But, there was a problem. The guy I bought from wants to be able to sell another parcel off the road (one "on" my road so to speak) so he has to maintain another 30 foot easement. Problem is, his 30 foot easement has a pond on it So we made a "mutual perpetual sharing agreement" a part of the deed.

The guy is cheap but he surprised me last year by being willing to buy 4 semi-loads of crushed rock if I'd buy another 4. The road isn't great, but it's passable in all weather, and for the time being that's good enough.

I'm hoping and praying he sell his land, I'd rather deal with just about anyone else in maintaining the road. But its been for sale for 4 years and no serious offers yet - because he's asking too much