Sharpen the tiller tines?

[clemsonfor]

The "dull" tines will still cut a 3" diameter root no trouble. Tilling my garden with a friends JD tiller and tractor i tilled a few up and never really noticed them.

 

[California]

Tines wear thinner and shorter with time, fast enough. Makes me pause to consider taking any metal off them intentionally. Agree with the others that the edge would be beat dull very quickly anyhow.

You're making me acknowledge what I already suspected.

Mowing is probably your solution. Keeping it disked or dragged, in a dirt state, in another option. Do you all get concerned about trips over the ground? Compaction issues, etc?

A couple of neighbors mow (only) but their apple trees seem more for ambiance than they are economically rational. Normal real-farmer practice here is to disc when the grass starts to brown (about now) then roll with a ring roller for compaction just before harvest to make a smooth walking/driving surface.

We went organic three years ago. The transition went smoother than I ever thought possible. The market price support is there. Sure, we had some philosophical disposition but the market drove us organic, plain and simple. We're very pleased. Your place looks beautiful.

Thanks! Yes, organic has finally gained the popularity to make economic sense.

Do you have any pictures online showing your place?

you dont get root damage from constant disking? There obviously not shallow rooted trees, and or the constant disking forces the roots deeper?

This is non-irrigated orchard, and located where it generally doesn't rain from Easter to Thanksgiving.

After the wet season ends in mid-spring, mature trees don't need roots near the surface because there's no moisture in the top layer.

Here's a July 6 2007 photo. No moisture encountered in the full depth I dug, about two feet.

Rmully: Thanks! Ok, I'm persuaded to leave the tines alone.

 

[sixdogs]

I am a forester yet dont know the answer to my own tree question. Probably because i know southern commercial species, and not ornamental, or cultivars or fruit trees. This is more of a hortaculturist question i guess.

Anyway, my question is i guess you dont get root damage from constant disking. There obviously not shallow rooted trees, and or the constant disking forces the roots deeper?

The rototiller creates a "plowpan" and causes artifical compaction of the surface of the soil. This can easily be seen if you lift the tller in the middle of the row. This plowpan causes water to settle on the surface and the pan formed makes it a struggle for roots to get through to get the nutrients and water. Some dual speed tillers can reduce this by having the tines go at slower speeds than normal. The disc harrow is said to be worse than a tiller and is commonly regarded in ag circles as the single item that causes the greatest amount of compaction and potential root damage.

Gardens that are tilled in clay soil that is especially prone to compaction will show a reduction in yield that is obvious in the first year, especially if it's a dry year. I have done a lot of tilling and after a year or two the garden needs to be deep subsoiled below that layer of compaction. This compaction issue is not so obvious, or might not be an issue at all in the thin gravel loam soil of Northern New England or similar places. I tilled there for decades and didn't notice much in the way of yield reduction.

It would seem to me that discing or tilling in an orchard would not be a good idea and that it would destroy the feeder roots and make life difficult for the tree. The best way to check would be to ask an extension agent or look at a nearby university website. These guys generally know their stuff.

 

[Car Doc]

Interesting info there 6dogs I didn't know a tiller created compaction I will have to keep that in mind. :thumbsup:

I mow first when grass is pretty high for the obvious reasons some gets tangled anyway and sometimes even find some twine etc. I have used my torch with great success getting it cleaned up and thats my go to tool if I am near one fwtw.

I am of the opinion tines and mower blades wear so fast sharpening them is a short lived benefit and probably long term detriment, hard face on the other hand is a whole different animal however and is a good thing if a person has a mind to do it. But I am lazy too and getting on my side or back with a 4 1/2 is not happening.

 

[sixdogs]

I know little of orchards but am familiar with ag stuff. Maybe ask an extension agent about letting the grass grow to maybe 6 inches and then spraying with Roundup --and then leaving it alone. It would seem the grass stubble might shade the ground and retain some moisture?

 

[clemsonfor]

I know little of orchards but am familiar with ag stuff. Maybe ask an extension agent about letting the grass grow to maybe 6 inches and then spraying with Roundup --and then leaving it alone. It would seem the grass stubble might shade the ground and retain some moisture?

I told him to spray around the tree bases, but said he cant due to the Organic label.

This needs to be changed. Round up is NOT harmfull to humans. After all in this instance it will be sprayed on the ground not the fruit trees? The stuff turns to harmless crystals once it hits the soil. Again its not sprayed on the trees any one with a piece of brain will realize that your NOT going to spray herbicide on your Crops!!!

 

[rmully]

He could grow red fescue and seed heavy and it will groe 6-8 incheds tall and not need mowing.

 

[clemsonfor]

He could grow red fescue and seed heavy and it will groe 6-8 incheds tall and not need mowing.

round here fescue grows 4-5 feet!

 

[Baby Grand]

I am a forester yet dont know the answer to my own tree question. Probably because i know southern commercial species, and not ornamental, or cultivars or fruit trees. This is more of a hortaculturist question i guess.

Anyway, my question is i guess you dont get root damage from constant disking. There obviously not shallow rooted trees, and or the constant disking forces the roots deeper?

I thought exactly the same thing - how can he disk that close to the trunk and not kill the trees unless it forces the roots to grow deep?

 

[California]

how can he disk that close to the trunk and not kill the trees unless it forces the roots to grow deep?

As I showed in that backhoe photo, later in the year there's no moisture near the surface. This is dry farming relying on subsurface water and fog from the nearby ocean; we don't irrigate. And digging out stumps, I don't find significant roots in the first 12 inches of soil. I don't think there's much in the top 12 inches to harm by discing.

This photo shows how weeds are minimized by discing as close to the trees as possible. (I took the photo 2008 when we watered random replacement trees near the house. More recently with more new trees I put a watering rig on a trailer).

My neighbor is a third-generation orchardist on his home parcel nearby, and he considers it 'common practice' to disc as close to the trees as possible without gouging them. He tills/sprays/harvests my orchard commercially, while I am responsible for getting new trees started, removing stumps, and the other peripheral projects. His style of close discing has been the accepted practice for 100+ years here so far as I know.

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