Shaver HD10 not lifting pounder head

[wfd2]

I bought a used Shaver HD-10 post driver for the back of my '73 International 656D. The Shaver isn't too old as far as farm equipment goes, it's a 1998.

I hooked it up on the 3pt hitch, plumbed the 1 1/4" return line back to the tractor's resevoir and plugged it into a good rear remote. (I have dual remotes on the back of this tractor and both work, tested by my 2000 loader.)

Now, drum roll.. try to lift pounder head... and music stops. Nothing. The cylinder will not move the head up. But, the cylinder will not allow the head to fall, unless I push the valve to allow it to drop. So, in my mind the seals in the cylinder are good or else it wouldn't hold the pounder head in the air. I also tested the drop cycle and everything seems to move freely. The cylinder will even stop the head mid way down the fall. When I dump the valve, oil does shoot out the return line back into the sump, so oil is making it into the cylinder but obviously not enough oil or pressure.

Does anyone have any experience with this pounder? It doesn't seem as though it's the tractor... it's a pretty big tractor for this pounder. I believe the pump is rated at 15 GPM w/dual remotes. Also, the lines are "stock" Shaver, so I don't think anyone put a smaller high pressure line on it, but again I could be wrong.

Does anyone have any ideas? Your experience and insight is appreciated as this Saturday is in the books, score being Shaver 1, Bill 0.

Thanks!
Bill

 

[RickB]

It doesn't matter how 'big' the tractor is, or how many GPM it is rated for; pressure lifts the head. Put a 3000 PSI gauge in the remote coupler and stroke the valve, I'll bet the relief pressure is down around 1200-1500PSI. Those IH's have wimpy low RV settings. I have seen 656's that wouldn't operate a Kuhn rake, and 686's and Hydro 70's that wouldn't open a round baler gate properly. A higher rated RV is available from CaseIH.
That Shaver driver has a very small cylinder I.D and requires decent pressure to lift the head.

 

[J_J]

wfd2,

You said this.

[ The cylinder will not move the head up. But, the cylinder will not allow the head to fall.

Then you said the fluid rushes out. ]

So is the Shaver pounder weight being lifted up, or is it up, but won't fall?

So, is the cyl extending and retracting, or is some other mechanical thing not letting the weight rise
and fall.

Like RickB said, put a pressure gage in the circuit to verify pressure.

Have you looked at a parts diagram to see how the machine is supposed to work?

 

[sweettractors]

I bought a used Shaver HD-10 post driver for the back of my '73 International 656D. The Shaver isn't too old as far as farm equipment goes, it's a 1998.

I hooked it up on the 3pt hitch, plumbed the 1 1/4" return line back to the tractor's resevoir and plugged it into a good rear remote. (I have dual remotes on the back of this tractor and both work, tested by my 2000 loader.)

Now, drum roll.. try to lift pounder head... and music stops. Nothing. The cylinder will not move the head up. But, the cylinder will not allow the head to fall, unless I push the valve to allow it to drop. So, in my mind the seals in the cylinder are good or else it wouldn't hold the pounder head in the air. I also tested the drop cycle and everything seems to move freely. The cylinder will even stop the head mid way down the fall. When I dump the valve, oil does shoot out the return line back into the sump, so oil is making it into the cylinder but obviously not enough oil or pressure.

Does anyone have any experience with this pounder? It doesn't seem as though it's the tractor... it's a pretty big tractor for this pounder. I believe the pump is rated at 15 GPM w/dual remotes. Also, the lines are "stock" Shaver, so I don't think anyone put a smaller high pressure line on it, but again I could be wrong.

Does anyone have any ideas? Your experience and insight is appreciated as this Saturday is in the books, score being Shaver 1, Bill 0.

Thanks!
Bill

I bet it was last used on a JD tractor and has the wrong valve setup ie open center, closed center. Check the history of the drivers use? Ken Sweet

 

[J_J]

I am thinking that if the valve was setup for closed center, the the remote valve PRV would be going off, because you are blocking total pump flow.


If you think it is closed center, remove the closed center plug. Item #7 Check with the manufacturer or determine what plug is in the valve.

Parts manual.

HD-10 Post Driver

Go to page 50 , shows the valve and the open center plug and the closed center valve.

However there is a lot of set up for the Shaver, and if not done correctly, might not work as advertised.

http://www.shavermfg.com/downloads/HD12FinalWebSite.pdf

 

[RickB]

Closed Center Plug is an important thing to check (for other reasons), but if sufficient pressure and flow was available at the driver's operating valve, the head would go up when the valve is stroked.

 

[wfd2]

J.J.,

So if I am understanding you correctly, if the pounder is setup for an open center using a fixed displacement pump, and the 656 has a variable volume pump, then the oil is just passing the cyclinder and ending back into the sump without lifting the cylinder?

So, is this correct below?:

-Open Center is for fixed displacement pump (without open center, the pump continues to pump, up to dangerous pressure, engine stall or pump failure)

-Closed center if for a variable volume pump (without closed center, max pressure to raise head is never reached and pump stops pumping)

Am I close? I'm just learning about this tonight, but is starting to make more sense.
I searched the forums and internet and I'm not sure which configuration I need. I will try to call Shaver tomorrow.

Does anyone know what type of pump the 656 has? Fixed displacement or variable volume pump?

 

[Verticaltrx]

J.J.,

So if I am understanding you correctly, if the pounder is setup for an open center using a fixed displacement pump, and the 656 has a variable volume pump, then the oil is just passing the cyclinder and ending back into the sump without lifting the cylinder?

So, is this correct below?:

-Open Center is for fixed displacement pump (without open center, the pump continues to pump, up to dangerous pressure, engine stall or pump failure)

-Closed center if for a variable volume pump (without closed center, max pressure to raise head is never reached and pump stops pumping)

Am I close? I'm just learning about this tonight, but is starting to make more sense.
I searched the forums and internet and I'm not sure which configuration I need. I will try to call Shaver tomorrow.

Does anyone know what type of pump the 656 has? Fixed displacement or variable volume pump?

Your IH will have an open center hydraulic system, therefore a fixed displacement pump. Make sure the driver is setup for open center for starters. Also just FYI, the shaver post drivers use a displacement type cylinder, so there are no internal seals. Only seals on it are the seal around the shaft.

 

[J_J]

It would be best if you called the manufacturer and ask some questions about the kind of valve you are using whether it is setup as open center or closed center.

 

[wfd2]

Thanks for all of your information and sharing your experience. I will let you know the outcome as I don't think the pounder is setup for open center. My Test: When tractor is running, oil should be bypassing back to sump at a fairly rapid flow. It's not.