Shipping Container for Olive Mill
- Thread starter rox
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6sunset6
Veteran Member
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- NH TC34DA 34HP HST, 2 rear remotes, front diverter, loaded R4's
I think you mean this T.S.: 481 N/mm2
I am not sure but if I had to guess I would say Tensile Strength to be
481 newtons per square millimeter. or greater .
I guess it gives the fabricator some leeway in picking material . They can go thinner or thicker depending on alloy, heat treat etc. We don't use that format in the US so I really do not know. May Renze or Mike Peterson will know.
I am not sure but if I had to guess I would say Tensile Strength to be
481 newtons per square millimeter. or greater .
I guess it gives the fabricator some leeway in picking material . They can go thinner or thicker depending on alloy, heat treat etc. We don't use that format in the US so I really do not know. May Renze or Mike Peterson will know.
I have been thinking about the concrete and how heavy that is going to be.
One day we want to move this thing and build a building in the same spot. Do you think we should have wheels put on it? Something like this photo shows.
I don't know how we would get it to the next spot as the driveway isn't wide enough for the neighbors lift truck, it is not 40ft wide lol. The lift trucks pick up the container in the middle and move it widthwise, they dont' move it lengthwise. Otherwise when we went to move it we would have to get in a truck, use the lift truck to put it on the truck and then truck it down the driveway which is a lengthwise move, 100ft, and then lift truck it into place. Seems like wheels might be a good idea. What do you think? Could we pull it with our Mercury Mountianeer or our tractor if it was on wheels?
One day we want to move this thing and build a building in the same spot. Do you think we should have wheels put on it? Something like this photo shows.
I don't know how we would get it to the next spot as the driveway isn't wide enough for the neighbors lift truck, it is not 40ft wide lol. The lift trucks pick up the container in the middle and move it widthwise, they dont' move it lengthwise. Otherwise when we went to move it we would have to get in a truck, use the lift truck to put it on the truck and then truck it down the driveway which is a lengthwise move, 100ft, and then lift truck it into place. Seems like wheels might be a good idea. What do you think? Could we pull it with our Mercury Mountianeer or our tractor if it was on wheels?
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We do have rebar as shown in the pick below. Does it matter if it is rusty?
FYI the cement blocks are special blocks that are made for building a swimming pool every contractor who looked at them said that. When we bought they were supposed to have built a pool but then the husband died and never finished it before we bought it so we have a few pallets of swimming pool block. I think it must be kind of pricey as the contractors were interested in it. I dont' think we'll ever use them, and I would just as soon sell them, as I would want one of those formed pools they bring in by truck, no leaks. It is a point of disagreement between my husband and myself and you can see he is winning the argument as the blocks are still there. Now maybe since we'll havve to move them he'll let me sell them.
FYI the cement blocks are special blocks that are made for building a swimming pool every contractor who looked at them said that. When we bought they were supposed to have built a pool but then the husband died and never finished it before we bought it so we have a few pallets of swimming pool block. I think it must be kind of pricey as the contractors were interested in it. I dont' think we'll ever use them, and I would just as soon sell them, as I would want one of those formed pools they bring in by truck, no leaks. It is a point of disagreement between my husband and myself and you can see he is winning the argument as the blocks are still there. Now maybe since we'll havve to move them he'll let me sell them.
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CurlyDave
Elite Member
rox:
Here in the US, I could buy a metal garage. 12 GA steel, 8' walls, 11' roof peak, 12' x 35' (much bigger than your container) totally installed on my pad for $5355. 9' wide roll up doors are $375 each and a man door is $250.
http://www.gaport.com/price/sheets/cavgarage12price.htm
This is right in the same ballpark as your container, but is much, much more suited to your needs. It might even be less expensive when dollars are converted to euros.
The cost of a concrete pad shaped to your needs placed on the ground would be less than the cost of putting concrete in the container, because you would shape the earth under the floor to make the slopes and just pour 6" concrete over it, no thick sections.
Now I know you can't buy the one in the link, but someone in Europe must make something similar, with similar prices. This isn't a full-on insulated building, it is just a shell.
The cost of electricity, water, drains, etc. in a building like this will be lower than in a container. No, it isn't going to be beautiful, and it won't last as long as a container, but you will get 15-20 years out of it, and it will be "less ugly" than a container.
It will still be uninsulated, but for 6 weeks use per year, it will take many decades for insulation to pay for itself. Hang electric radiant heaters and be done with it.
Lastly, you really don't want to pour concrete in a container. It is going to be a nightmare to ever move it again, and it will make the container hard to use for storage in the future.
Here in the US, I could buy a metal garage. 12 GA steel, 8' walls, 11' roof peak, 12' x 35' (much bigger than your container) totally installed on my pad for $5355. 9' wide roll up doors are $375 each and a man door is $250.
http://www.gaport.com/price/sheets/cavgarage12price.htm
This is right in the same ballpark as your container, but is much, much more suited to your needs. It might even be less expensive when dollars are converted to euros.
The cost of a concrete pad shaped to your needs placed on the ground would be less than the cost of putting concrete in the container, because you would shape the earth under the floor to make the slopes and just pour 6" concrete over it, no thick sections.
Now I know you can't buy the one in the link, but someone in Europe must make something similar, with similar prices. This isn't a full-on insulated building, it is just a shell.
The cost of electricity, water, drains, etc. in a building like this will be lower than in a container. No, it isn't going to be beautiful, and it won't last as long as a container, but you will get 15-20 years out of it, and it will be "less ugly" than a container.
It will still be uninsulated, but for 6 weeks use per year, it will take many decades for insulation to pay for itself. Hang electric radiant heaters and be done with it.
Lastly, you really don't want to pour concrete in a container. It is going to be a nightmare to ever move it again, and it will make the container hard to use for storage in the future.
6sunset6
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,055
- Location
- SE NY
- Tractor
- NH TC34DA 34HP HST, 2 rear remotes, front diverter, loaded R4's
Rusty rebar is better but I don't think that is rebar . It looks like wire mesh but I am not really sure.
Now 1 cubic yard = .76 cubic meters concrete average is 4000#/cy
so a cubic meter would be 2363 kg I think plus rebar maybe another 500kg
So 3cubic meters would weight 7500 kg. According to the spec you attached previously for a 6 meter container it must carry 20,000kg . Yours is a 12 meter the loading would be much more. So I think the container would stay together.
I think the way to move it would be to jack it up and slide a wheel assembly under it. House movers can move anything in very small spaces. This thing is not very heavy. The 6m container weight by itself is 3080kg
Rox I have been trying to answer questions about your particular plan. As CurlyDave has said there are other ways to do this . I am sure there will be other suggestions as well. It sounds like you have been thinking about about this for a while though and certainly know the requirements better than we do.
Now 1 cubic yard = .76 cubic meters concrete average is 4000#/cy
so a cubic meter would be 2363 kg I think plus rebar maybe another 500kg
So 3cubic meters would weight 7500 kg. According to the spec you attached previously for a 6 meter container it must carry 20,000kg . Yours is a 12 meter the loading would be much more. So I think the container would stay together.
I think the way to move it would be to jack it up and slide a wheel assembly under it. House movers can move anything in very small spaces. This thing is not very heavy. The 6m container weight by itself is 3080kg
Rox I have been trying to answer questions about your particular plan. As CurlyDave has said there are other ways to do this . I am sure there will be other suggestions as well. It sounds like you have been thinking about about this for a while though and certainly know the requirements better than we do.
CurlyDave,
yes I did spend enormous amounts of time investigating a pole barn large and small. As I recall I coudl get a 6 meter or 7 meter by 12 meter pole barn for 27,000 euros plus of course the 19.6% sales tax. I am keeping my eye on the final destination, what do I want to build 3 years from now. I do not want a pole barn type of building 3 years from now. In 3 years I want to build a very nice building, an attactive building, that I would use all year long. The pole barn or metal garage is not something I want to end up with, so I don't want to start with that. I want to go as cheap as possible on the first housing for the equipment with the added benefit of being able to move it out.
Within 50ft of the spot is 3 phase electric (I think this is like 340 volts) water and sewer.
Our neighbor has a small excavator and can dig out the trenches merely for the cost of diesel fuel. Our electrician friend can locate the underground wires at no cost to dig the trenches. he will also install the electric at a very low cost. I'm not thinking the materials are going to be extrodinarly expensive to run sew, water and electric 50ft. The only think left unmet is the plumbing. Our back neighbor just built his beautiful home a year ago. Our flat roof was leaking, he built a home with a flat roof. We asked him who his roofer was, roofer came over and gave us a $5,000 quote 10 year guarantee. They did a great job on the roof and it doesn't leak. Over here is different than in the states. Over here we have many many small tradesman business owners and they don't charge as much as in the states. A plumber here makes only half of what a US plumber makes. For example my sisterin laws are clerks in municipal governemnt they after 40+ year they are pulling down a whopping 25,000 a year. Wages are lower here. The employor taxes for employess is a killer 50% of the employees salary goes to employer paid taxes. This keeps wages low and why the French workers are always striking. This is why there are so many small mom & pop businesses where it is the sons and duaghters working in the family business with a nephew and niece coming in if necessary. It keeps overhead low and they charge lower prices. Every tradesman would prefer to be paid part in cash and they will price it for you accordingly. it is material costs over here that is a killer.
Roughly-
Container = 3,600 Euros
Modifications to container = 1,200 Euros
Door & 4 windows = 1,000 Euros
Electric = 1,200 Euros (cost of wire for 3 phase prolly costs a lot, but it's only 50 ft)
Plumbing & sewer = 1,000 Euros
Floor = 1,000 Euros I am guessing here I'll know more once I get a concrete estimate
Hotwater heater = 300 Euros
Sink = 200 Euros
Total = 9,500 Euros
Three years from now my electric is over where I want it, same for sewere and water
I can remove and resuse the HWH and sink. And I still have a very nice storage building that can be moved out of the way and isn't torn down and reassembled.
3 years from now we will have 3 years of revenue to look back on and know the real figures of the business and the growth potential. I have pretty good hopes that we are going to be successful at this. My desire is in 3 years to build the building and install a second press and a year later a 3rd press. There is good money in milling. In the last two years we paid 20,000 euros to have our olives pressed (2 year total) I calcualte that it will take about 8 hours a day to mill our own olives and then the rest of the time mill for other customers. Mills run 24/7 at harvest time. We are a larger producer so our rate is lower but milling for the public they have smaller quantities so the rate is higher. I would be pretty happy if I could add 15,000 to 20,000 euros from this one small press in addition to saving us 10,000 a year in milling expenses formerly paid to others. I don't feel comfortable gambling it all, and we are already laying out $85,000 on the press, how far do I want to gamble, by building a real nice building in addition to the cost of the press when I don't have any customers to start with? I would rather start in a 10,000 Euro container that is re-usable and in fact can be re-sold if I wanted, and see what kind of business I can build and see the numbers. Once we have 3 full years under our belt then we will know the next step. We are to old to take on a lot of debt. Our farm is paid off and I don't want to go into debt. Our press will have value and if things don't work out can be resold also. If all heck breaks loose I can resell the container and resell the press, take my lumps and go home. But I dont' think that is gonna happen.
Since I did all that research on a pole barn, I can guarantee you it is at least 10,000 euros for the one car garage, if not then real close. And then after 3 years I would want to tear it down anyway. Every building requires an architect here, our container will not require an architect (is there an h in architect?) as it is not a permenent structure. Especially if I put wheels on it
I will not have to meet any city building codes , only a set of building codes that are specific to olive mills. There is a national building code for mills (think of all the grapes that are harvested) and a sub-section for olive mills. I dont' even need city permission since we already met with the planning dept. But I will make a goodwill visit before we buy it, before we sign, to the director of planning and urbanism. I thoughtfully called him right after New Years and wished him a Happy New Year.
I didn't put this out on TBN until we had made a final decision, as I did not want to waste my goodwill with ya'll chasing windmills. We have quotes from 5 contractors and now that I think about it, 3 pole barn companies. We are going to go with the 10,000 euro container (and it is not really 10,000 because the sewer, water and electrical will be reused at the same location) We will probably pay as you go this year, as we sell olive oil get the water put in, sell more oil put in the sewer, and use current revenue. I want this up and running in November so we have 10 months.
I sincerly appreciate you thinking about it and asking me to look at another solution, that shows that you really are interested in our project and I thank you for that.
yes I did spend enormous amounts of time investigating a pole barn large and small. As I recall I coudl get a 6 meter or 7 meter by 12 meter pole barn for 27,000 euros plus of course the 19.6% sales tax. I am keeping my eye on the final destination, what do I want to build 3 years from now. I do not want a pole barn type of building 3 years from now. In 3 years I want to build a very nice building, an attactive building, that I would use all year long. The pole barn or metal garage is not something I want to end up with, so I don't want to start with that. I want to go as cheap as possible on the first housing for the equipment with the added benefit of being able to move it out.
Within 50ft of the spot is 3 phase electric (I think this is like 340 volts) water and sewer.
Our neighbor has a small excavator and can dig out the trenches merely for the cost of diesel fuel. Our electrician friend can locate the underground wires at no cost to dig the trenches. he will also install the electric at a very low cost. I'm not thinking the materials are going to be extrodinarly expensive to run sew, water and electric 50ft. The only think left unmet is the plumbing. Our back neighbor just built his beautiful home a year ago. Our flat roof was leaking, he built a home with a flat roof. We asked him who his roofer was, roofer came over and gave us a $5,000 quote 10 year guarantee. They did a great job on the roof and it doesn't leak. Over here is different than in the states. Over here we have many many small tradesman business owners and they don't charge as much as in the states. A plumber here makes only half of what a US plumber makes. For example my sisterin laws are clerks in municipal governemnt they after 40+ year they are pulling down a whopping 25,000 a year. Wages are lower here. The employor taxes for employess is a killer 50% of the employees salary goes to employer paid taxes. This keeps wages low and why the French workers are always striking. This is why there are so many small mom & pop businesses where it is the sons and duaghters working in the family business with a nephew and niece coming in if necessary. It keeps overhead low and they charge lower prices. Every tradesman would prefer to be paid part in cash and they will price it for you accordingly. it is material costs over here that is a killer.
Roughly-
Container = 3,600 Euros
Modifications to container = 1,200 Euros
Door & 4 windows = 1,000 Euros
Electric = 1,200 Euros (cost of wire for 3 phase prolly costs a lot, but it's only 50 ft)
Plumbing & sewer = 1,000 Euros
Floor = 1,000 Euros I am guessing here I'll know more once I get a concrete estimate
Hotwater heater = 300 Euros
Sink = 200 Euros
Total = 9,500 Euros
Three years from now my electric is over where I want it, same for sewere and water
I can remove and resuse the HWH and sink. And I still have a very nice storage building that can be moved out of the way and isn't torn down and reassembled.
3 years from now we will have 3 years of revenue to look back on and know the real figures of the business and the growth potential. I have pretty good hopes that we are going to be successful at this. My desire is in 3 years to build the building and install a second press and a year later a 3rd press. There is good money in milling. In the last two years we paid 20,000 euros to have our olives pressed (2 year total) I calcualte that it will take about 8 hours a day to mill our own olives and then the rest of the time mill for other customers. Mills run 24/7 at harvest time. We are a larger producer so our rate is lower but milling for the public they have smaller quantities so the rate is higher. I would be pretty happy if I could add 15,000 to 20,000 euros from this one small press in addition to saving us 10,000 a year in milling expenses formerly paid to others. I don't feel comfortable gambling it all, and we are already laying out $85,000 on the press, how far do I want to gamble, by building a real nice building in addition to the cost of the press when I don't have any customers to start with? I would rather start in a 10,000 Euro container that is re-usable and in fact can be re-sold if I wanted, and see what kind of business I can build and see the numbers. Once we have 3 full years under our belt then we will know the next step. We are to old to take on a lot of debt. Our farm is paid off and I don't want to go into debt. Our press will have value and if things don't work out can be resold also. If all heck breaks loose I can resell the container and resell the press, take my lumps and go home. But I dont' think that is gonna happen.
Since I did all that research on a pole barn, I can guarantee you it is at least 10,000 euros for the one car garage, if not then real close. And then after 3 years I would want to tear it down anyway. Every building requires an architect here, our container will not require an architect (is there an h in architect?) as it is not a permenent structure. Especially if I put wheels on it
I will not have to meet any city building codes , only a set of building codes that are specific to olive mills. There is a national building code for mills (think of all the grapes that are harvested) and a sub-section for olive mills. I dont' even need city permission since we already met with the planning dept. But I will make a goodwill visit before we buy it, before we sign, to the director of planning and urbanism. I thoughtfully called him right after New Years and wished him a Happy New Year.
I didn't put this out on TBN until we had made a final decision, as I did not want to waste my goodwill with ya'll chasing windmills. We have quotes from 5 contractors and now that I think about it, 3 pole barn companies. We are going to go with the 10,000 euro container (and it is not really 10,000 because the sewer, water and electrical will be reused at the same location) We will probably pay as you go this year, as we sell olive oil get the water put in, sell more oil put in the sewer, and use current revenue. I want this up and running in November so we have 10 months.
I sincerly appreciate you thinking about it and asking me to look at another solution, that shows that you really are interested in our project and I thank you for that.
CurlyDave
Elite Member
rox:
I understand your decision on the container. I won't stop making suggestions.
One day we want to move this thing and build a building in the same spot. Do you think we should have wheels put on it? Something like this photo shows.
Wheels like the ones in your picture work well on concrete, but I think they are too small to be effective on gravel like you have.
Any decent crew of riggers ought to be able to lift this up a few feet and put mobile home wheels, or something similar, under it even with a heavy concrete floor inside. It might cost something. I once watched a crew of about 5 move a 3 M wide x 10 M long steel vacuum chamber with about 5 cm thick walls (very heavy) out of a building and onto a truck in less than 3 hours. I don't know what they charged, but 15 man hours can't be that expensive.
I am just wondering if there isn't something which would be both lighter than concrete and removable for the floor. Maybe fiberglass with wood blocking underneath?
I understand your decision on the container. I won't stop making suggestions.
One day we want to move this thing and build a building in the same spot. Do you think we should have wheels put on it? Something like this photo shows.
Wheels like the ones in your picture work well on concrete, but I think they are too small to be effective on gravel like you have.
Any decent crew of riggers ought to be able to lift this up a few feet and put mobile home wheels, or something similar, under it even with a heavy concrete floor inside. It might cost something. I once watched a crew of about 5 move a 3 M wide x 10 M long steel vacuum chamber with about 5 cm thick walls (very heavy) out of a building and onto a truck in less than 3 hours. I don't know what they charged, but 15 man hours can't be that expensive.
I am just wondering if there isn't something which would be both lighter than concrete and removable for the floor. Maybe fiberglass with wood blocking underneath?
6sunset6
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,055
- Location
- SE NY
- Tractor
- NH TC34DA 34HP HST, 2 rear remotes, front diverter, loaded R4's
I have been thinking about the waste water problem. You will not have any gravity drain or not much. How about draing it into a small pump chamber, like a sump pump. runs off a float. Pump it into a farm tank on wheels. When it is full hook up the tractor and tow it to the fields. Have to do something while the tank on wheels is away. Pump it to a small stationary tank or stop work till the rolling tank comes back. This is like wine, pump it antwhere you want.
