Shop Heater won't run

[horsebroke]

I bought a 25,000 BTU ProCom propane heater for my new shop in August.
No matter what I tried - with/without regulator, I could not get it to light.

So I returned it to Northern Tool, and they sent me a new one, which I received this week. I can't get it to light, either.

If I hook it directly from the propane tank - the flow is too fast, and it blows the pilot out. If I hook it thru a regulator (like one for a barbecue), I get NO GAS flow at all.

So, with same symptoms on BOTH heaters, I thought maybe I had a bad regulator. So I bought a new one yesterday, and tried it. SAME SYMPTOMS - it will not light the pilot!!

Anyone out there have any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

thx again for any advice

 

[dave1949]

I bought a 25,000 BTU ProCom propane heater for my new shop in August.
No matter what I tried - with/without regulator, I could not get it to light.

So I returned it to Northern Tool, and they sent me a new one, which I received this week. I can't get it to light, either.

If I hook it directly from the propane tank - the flow is too fast, and it blows the pilot out. If I hook it thru a regulator (like one for a barbecue), I get NO GAS flow at all.

So, with same symptoms on BOTH heaters, I thought maybe I had a bad regulator. So I bought a new one yesterday, and tried it. SAME SYMPTOMS - it will not light the pilot!!

Anyone out there have any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

thx again for any advice

Not really. I have seen some newer regulators that are very sensitive to high flow. Some safety thing internally closes them if it thinks the gas flow rate is too high. If that is the case, just crack open the tank valve a little bit before trying to light it.

Does your heater have a thermostat? Tip over safety switch? Pilot light and thermocouple?

Dave.

 

[SPIKER]

Sounds like there is a need for a different type/size of regulator. not sure what size the regulator you are using is set to. Most BBQ regulators are not designed to provide a consistent pressure to flow that may be needed for your heater. or the pressure maybe too low or two high.

If you have wiring specs, and gas specs for the heater & regulator that would help a lot.

Mark

 

[dave1949]

Don't breathe on it, some of those have oxygen depletion shut-offs
Dave.

 

[radioman]

Not sure of your model- assuming you have a full propane tank with valve open. On the heater, you should be able to turn the heater on and THEN press and HOLD until you get a flame coming out. use one of those BBQ lighters with tip of flame near the pipe exit, not in middle of flame. Its the tip part of the flame from lighter is important, no need to have flame in the path of the gas flow.

 

[Matt_Jr]

I'm sure you already know this, but I'll throw it out there anyhow. Some heaters have a thermocouple that the pilot light heats up. I don't know what kind of heater you have, but if it has a button you push when lighting the pilot, you hold the button until the thermocouple warms up, and the pilot should stay lit. Usually for around 15-20 seconds, larger heaters sometimes a minute. Holding too long won't hurt nothing, but too little causes the pilot to go back out. It's a safety feature so that if the pilot light goes out, the valve for the gas will close, so that an enclosed space doesn't get filled up with the gas meant for the pilot light. Hope you get some heat in there. Holding cold tools makes for hands that don't work too good.

 

[Mark_in_NH]

What size tank are you using to feed the heater ?

 

[DanD78]

Your regulator should be putting out about 11" of water collum pressure or around 6.3 oz. You might try lighting with a fire starter instead of the sparker while holding the polit button down. Some times the spark is not in the right spot to light the gas. If you can't get it going I suggest you contact you propane supplyer for advice. Straight tank pressure or any form of usinig a valve to control tank pressure is a bad idea. A grill cylinder should vaporise more than enough gas to run the heater through the proper regulator.

Are you sure the heater is ment for propane and not natural gas.

Dan

 

[horsebroke]

Thanks to all who have offered their suggestions.

A few questions were asked:

What kind of heater? It's a Procom ML250TPA, 25,000 BTU Propane Ventless.
What kind of Propane Tank? It's the standard 20/25 lb one typically used for Barbecues.

I've tried 2 different regulators - both NEW. Neither works.
I've tried 3 different propane tanks - 1 completely full, other 2 partially full
I've tried both with and without the regulators. With the regulator, I get no gas flow at all to the pilot - and it won't light with either the piezeoelectric starter - or with an external lighter. Without the regulator, the gas flow thru the pilot is too strong - constantly blows the flame out.

Matt JR suggested that it might be a thermocouple problem, with the thermocouple not getting preheated enough. This heater has no external power source, so there's no way for the thermocouple to preheat- it gets NO heat until the pilot is lit - and it won't light.

DanD78 suggested the propane should be at "11 inches of water column pressure or 6.3 ounces". How do I measure that? Dan sounds like he's experienced with heating/plumbing - but I'm not.

And lastly, Yes, the heater is designed specifically for propane.

Thanks - and keep the suggestions coming. I'm about ready to throw in the towel and return this darn thing for a refund to Northern Tool Co. They've been absolutely NO help in solving this problem other than "read the manual", which I've done over and over...

 

[dave1949]

What do the installation instructions say about a regulator? Did a regulator come with it or are you supposed to provide one, or what?

Since it is brand new, why not call Procom's tech support? It's possible they put out a batch of heaters that all have the same defective part in them.


Here is one contact, I can't find a Procom corporate web site:
Hopefully there is a customer support number in the manual besides Northern Tool. If not, I would ship it back and buy from someone less anonymous who really wants to talk to their customers.

ProcomVentFree.com is owned and operated by:
Contractors Depot
48 Island Drive
Eastpoint
Florida
32328

You can reach us by email at sales@ProcomVentFree.com

By phone:
1 877 266 3532 (toll free)
1 850 670 1100 (landline)


Dave.

 

[kennyd]

A few things come to mind here:

1) According to the specs, it is supposed to have a 100lb tank or bigger. THIS is your heater correct?

2) I assume the regulator you are using is for a grill? That will NOT work. You need one for an appliance set to 11"WC. And you need a Manometer to set that. They can be made for next to nothing if you search, mine is made from clear tubing mounted on a board and filled with water and food coloring.

Here are some references:

Propane101
Regulator Facts


I don't mean to sound like a butt head, but you need to get professional help. Gas is not something to practice on.

 

[tommu56]

I had an issue with the propane at my cabin I bought a plo fitting with some sort a excess flow thing in it it was for a grill and it kept shutting off.
I got one with out the thing in it and it worked fine.

tom

 

[DanD78]

I am no expert but what I have learned is from a friend in the propane business. A "U" tube Manometer will tell you if your pressure is correct. Once you get the hose off the regulator hooked to your manometer measure the difference between the high water and low water levels and that is your inches of pressure. Just a friction fit from hose to hose is good enough.

I would call for local help. You may need a two stage regulator. For my house I have one regulator at the tank and another at the house. You can get two stage regulators built in to one unit like used on campers.

The PLO that Tom talked about is a type of two stage set up. The orfice in the PLO fitting gives a pressure drop so the regulator can control better.

The Propane 101 link Kenny put up is a great resoruce.




  »   » Manometer

 

[DaveOmak]

Horsebroke,

This may have been previously mentioned but here goes. The new OPD propane tanks have a device in the valve or somewhere that will stop the propane flow if vented to atmosphere. Try opening the tank with it disconnected. Outside of course. If there is no propane flow the tank system is working as designed.
Connect the tank to your heater. Turn off the heater so no propane will flow to it. Crack the valve on the tank. Turn off the tank. Crack the valve on the tank. During this procedure the safety valve should reset so propane will flow as normal.
I bought a weed burner and had this problem. Some days it would light and other days it wouldn't. It is important that the hose etc. between the tank and your device is fully charged with pressure so the tank "knows" it is not venting to the atmosphere.
These new safety devices can be frustrating at times to say the least.
Hope that helps. Dave

 

[dave1949]

Horsebroke,

This may have been previously mentioned but here goes. The new OPD propane tanks have a device in the valve or somewhere that will stop the propane flow if vented to atmosphere. Try opening the tank with it disconnected. Outside of course. If there is no propane flow the tank system is working as designed.
Connect the tank to your heater. Turn off the heater so no propane will flow to it. Crack the valve on the tank. Turn off the tank. Crack the valve on the tank. During this procedure the safety valve should reset so propane will flow as normal.
I bought a weed burner and had this problem. Some days it would light and other days it wouldn't. It is important that the hose etc. between the tank and your device is fully charged with pressure so the tank "knows" it is not venting to the atmosphere.
These new safety devices can be frustrating at times to say the least.
Hope that helps. Dave

That's the doohickey I was thinking of in my earlier post, except I thought it was part of the regulator. It is in the OPD valve. They have made them so safe they almost work. The regulators must be in a state of bureaucratic nirvana.
Dave.

 

[DaveOmak]

Dave, It is the governments job to protect us. I don't think so!!!! Little do they know???

Dave

 

[horsebroke]

OK - Thanks to all who have replied and offered their suggestions. I finally found a number and called ProCom technical support (1-877-886-5989).

What I found kinda shocked me: This unit REQUIRES a 100 lb or larger Propane Tank!. The pressure from the BarBQue size tank is TOO LOW..

I purchased this from Northern Tool - and before I purchased it, I read all the reviews in detail - and several talked about how good the ProCom was, and how they used it with their barbcue tank and it was simple and reliable, etc.

WRONG!! ProCom tech support says it needs the high pressure feed, with a 2-stage regulator. ARGH. So my $199 heater will now cost an additional $130+ for the tank (empty), plus $60+ for the regulator!!.. NO WAY.

I've seen these issues before at various supplier's web sites - where they quote someone's evaluation/rating on the product - but the ratings get grouped together for a whole range of products - and don't necessarily apply to the specific model you're looking at. I think this is the case here. ProCom makes lots of different propane heater models, and I assume Northern Tool groups the ratings comments together for all of them.. Northern Tool's website doesn't mention anything about the 100Lb tank or external regulator requirement for this particular model.

Anyway - it's misleading. I'm going to try to return this heater for credit. And the 2 regulators, and the fan, and the plastic feet (believe it or not - the plastic screw-on feet cost $20!!).

Thanks for all your help. It was all a big waste of time and $$.
Call me disgruntled/unhappy with Northern Tool!! (or maybe stronger words?)

 

[dave1949]

OK - Thanks to all who have replied and offered their suggestions. I finally found a number and called ProCom technical support (1-877-886-5989).

What I found kinda shocked me: This unit REQUIRES a 100 lb or larger Propane Tank!. The pressure from the BarBQue size tank is TOO LOW..

I purchased this from Northern Tool - and before I purchased it, I read all the reviews in detail - and several talked about how good the ProCom was, and how they used it with their barbcue tank and it was simple and reliable, etc.

WRONG!! ProCom tech support says it needs the high pressure feed, with a 2-stage regulator. ARGH. So my $199 heater will now cost an additional $130+ for the tank (empty), plus $60+ for the regulator!!.. NO WAY.

I've seen these issues before at various supplier's web sites - where they quote someone's evaluation/rating on the product - but the ratings get grouped together for a whole range of products - and don't necessarily apply to the specific model you're looking at. I think this is the case here. ProCom makes lots of different propane heater models, and I assume Northern Tool groups the ratings comments together for all of them.. Northern Tool's website doesn't mention anything about the 100Lb tank or external regulator requirement for this particular model.

Anyway - it's misleading. I'm going to try to return this heater for credit. And the 2 regulators, and the fan, and the plastic feet (believe it or not - the plastic screw-on feet cost $20!!).

Thanks for all your help. It was all a big waste of time and $$.
Call me disgruntled/unhappy with Northern Tool!! (or maybe stronger words?)

Well good, you got to the heart of the matter. Sorry that didn't turn out to be the heater you wanted. Hopefully they will take it back. It sure doesn't mention that stuff on NT's web page for that heater. I think you have a legitimate gripe.
Dave.

 

[powerstroke444e]

What kind of gas do you have @ your house??? If you hired a pro they could hook it to you homes lp tank or to the natural gas hookup.

 

[tommu56]

The problem with the 20's is surface area you could put 2 0r 3 in parallel to the regulator to increase the surface area for the vapor to come off

I had to use 3 100 lb cylinders at my cabin in cold weather to have enough surface area to make gas from the liquid.

tom