Shop layout

[schmism]

Hears your chance.

Ive moved my shop 3 times now. each time to a slightly larger shop. (so im not new to setting up shop pun intentended) My past garage being a standard 2 car (20x22 or so) and is currently PACKED with tools.

With the recent property purches it came with a 32x60 x 12 (i think) pole barn. The point is its HUGE! i mean just F'n HUGE!

like im standing in it sat night with it lit with the 3 flourecent fixtures. (enough light to seee, but really not "work by" pondering were to put stuff... and i am faced with that problem of its SO large... i really dont know were to start.

so the layout/givens.

the south west corner

as you can see i have a large front "2 door" sliding entrance. full height, 20' probibly. to the left of the man door is a single sliding door probibly 16' wide.

gravel floor.

no other entrances.

What i have (will have)

full machine/fab/mechincs shop. Everything from rebuilding engines, to body work, off road fab, to oil changes. (i have a small personal fleet of cars/trucks)

addtionally i have a full woodworking shop. As you can imagine the 2 dont really work together well. machine work doesnt like dust, and wood doesnt like grease.

I WILL have a 2 post lift.

I really only want to put concreet in half for right now( $$ considerations)

considerations
I need space to park the tractor
I need space for 2 post lift
I have no other covered parking so a daily "garage" duities for 2 cars (till something else "garage" like is built)

Im considering converting the single sliding door to a 16' (or double 8') roll up doors. the rear most (most north of the 2) would have the lift located in it.
With this layout i could still have the front door as pull in access for reg maintaince or tractor parking. The east 10' used for bench and machine shop layout.

what say you?

FYI hears a quick sketch

 

[schmism]

the little green rectangle represents a new padmount transformer that will supply the compound with underground power in place of the current overhead that runs right through my "lawn" front yard

 

[schmism]

few other notes.... im not opposed to creating more doors.... But like any pole barn... you got 8' between 6x6 (or could be 8x8) posts....

Ive thought about relocating "tractor" storage to the "back" half of the barn with a new door on that side.

oh ya and i have no idea how to heat a space this big.

my current garage i have a small wood burning stove which is great for my current 400 sq feet but will be woofully uneffective in my new 1920 sqft.

not that i need my garage 80deg in the winter... but its nice to to freeze your toes off while tring to work on projects.

 

[George2615]

Nice pole barn. I currently use my garage w/ 2 post lift in winter and use a salamander heater to take the chill off when needed. It has a 7 gal. oil tank and if I run full bore it heats for several hours. I don't heat the garage all the time, only when I'm working in there on a cold day. My garage is only 24x24x14H. If you use a wood burning stove and supplement with a salamander I think you'd be all set.

 

[InlineDieselFan]

schmism,

you have aproblem that most people would love to have!!!

I have a 42x48 shop and have been trying to figure out how to lay things out. I wish it was a 60x48 but money was a big issue. We moved out of the shop in Feb/Mar.

It could be the drawing not to scale but leave plenty of room for and aft of the lift for crew-cab sized pick-ups, and your tractor with the bucket on. It could be just the drawing but it loks to close to the wall/door.

I heat my shop with a ceiling mounted propane heater, it goes from 45-50 degrees to 70 (like I said we lived in the shop) in about 10-15 minutes.

For myself I like an 'L' or 'U' shaped area as the small machine shop bench area, my plan is for a 16' bench on one wall, then an 8' bench butted up against it. Then on the opposite wall from the 8' bench will go the drill press, grinder, parts washer. Welder, lift, big air compressor further down on that same back wall. If this makes any sence without a picture.

What you can do is lay out pieces of cardboard on the floor to place all of your stuff, this may give you a better lay out. I would keep 4' minimum to each side of the lift, and 6' minimum to the front of where the largest vehicle would sit.

Now someday to get teh money for all of my shop toys.

Is it wired yet?

steve

 

[schmism]

ITs got some power... currently has 30 amps of 240V

but by the end of the year i should have the new underground power run to the building which means ill have 200 amps of 240v. unfortuantly no 3 phase

 

[ovrszd]

Well you have the cheapest part done, the building. The expensive part is yet to come. I built my own shop and when I was to the point you are now I thought I was about done. Boy was I wrong. You have plumbing, concrete, electrical, ceiling, insulation, wall covering and lighting to do. Then you will have a big open building. You could easily spend twice what the building cost and twice as much labor. Looks like a good long term project to me!!

 

[3RRL]

Don't forget a good size 2 stage air compressor and a clean schematic for running all the air lines every 10 feet or so so you've got plenty of air hoses and some water bibs all around. When I laid out my 27,000 sq ft mold shop I had all electrical, water and air underground coming up into divider walls. There was nothing on the floor or overhead except the lights.
Get a rotary 3Ø converter and you're in business. That's a nice size (1800sq ft) for a shop. I recon my new shop will be about half that size but it'll have to do.

 

[schmism]

ya ive been reserching 2 stage compressors for a while.

phase converter is likely in the future also...

Whats your thought on air line?

my current shop i quick and dirty ran some 1/2 PVC. works well but i know most people frown on it.

copper is "easy" but expensive. Screw pipe (black pipe) works but is hard to deal with. PVC is cheep and easy to install. With some safty considerations i see no reason why it wouldnt work. (mainly keep the plastic out of the way, use either black pipe or copper for the drops)

 

[George2615]

I personally would not use PVC for air line. I trust it for water line up to about 50 psi but most air compressors run at 100# or higher. Would not want PVC shrapnel flying around me while I'm working should a line blow. A friend of mine ran PVC in his garage and when a line blew on him it sent a schard of PVC into his back. He promptly replaced it with galvanized. Copper is expensive and would be too soft to use for drops (bends easily unless securely strapped). I ran 3/8" ID pnuematic air hose in my small garage. If my garage was larger I'd have run 1/2" galvanized pipe with outlets every 15' with a 1/2" flex hose to connect to the compressor. Northern tool and TSC have compressors at reasonable prices.
For your own residential type garage / shop you don't need 3 phase commercial power. 220 single phase will work fine.

 

[3RRL]

Is your shop a "personal" shop or are you going to have to meet some kind of manufacturing business code?
For a personal shop I'd use schedule 40 pvc although, like you said people frown on it. So you'll have make a personal decision on safety in case you smash into it. But that's what I use... get several water traps too. Also go to at least 3/4" or 1" is even better. It increases the storage capacity of your tank by a lot. If you're not going inside walls, hang it way high and feed runners down (attached to the wall) to where you can plug in quick diconnects like this:



This is in my crummy little garage shop and only 1/2" line and I wish I'd used 1" instead. I even have an air line next to my desk!

 

[3RRL]

For your own residential type garage / shop you don't need 3 phase commercial power. 220 single phase will work fine.

Unless he has 3Ø machinery in it...

 

[schmism]

Unless he has 3Ø machinery in it...

ever seen how easy it is to find a lebond lathe with a non 3 phase motor?

ever try to get a bridport end mill with a single phase motor? (that wasnt 240/480)

you know I can pick up HUGE 2 stage air compressors off of craigs list for pennies on the dollar because they have a 3 phase motor and one one wants to deal with it. (i see them about once a month in my local version)

Its nice to punch the green on button on the magnetic switch and listen to the 3ph cabinet saw "jump" to life instead of it slowly spin upto speed with a reg 220 capacator start.....

ya for YOUR little "shop" you might not need 3 phase... but id dont have just any "little" shop



and whats up with 1/2" sec 40 pvc pipe pressures. Last i checked it has it clearly "stamped" on it "pressure tested to 600psi" ??? Ive been running 130 psi in it at my current shop for 5 years with narry a problem. (other than i hate air systems with leaks, and dont have enough water drops...)

that and its hard to feed a cabinet sand blaster with 15cfm at 90psi through a little 3/8 rubber hose tacked to the wall

 

[schmism]

This is in my crummy little garage shop and only 1/2" line and I wish I'd used 1" instead. I even have an air line next to my desk!

btw i figured out a while ago drop your airlines off with 45 deg fittings. it releaves a bunch of stress on both the fittings and the hoses.

 

[gordon21]

It may sound nitpicky, but make sure a work surface is on the proper side of any machine you are running. If you are right handed, the flat work surface needs to be on the right of the drill press, vise, etc. Otherwise, you will spend a lot of wasted motions always crossing over with your body or arms.

Think of a 3' wide grill in a restauarant or backyard. If you are right handed and the only work counter is on the left side, you will always be reaching over the hot grill or else doing the 2 step shuffle back and forth. Wasted effort and sometimes a safety issue with too many repeated motions.

 

[InlineDieselFan]

The reason I asked about electrical is I do not want you to make the same mistake I did, the height of the plugs are to low.

I told the electrician my work bench would be about 40 inches high, I came back down a fww days later and my plug ins were 41 inches up from the ground. Now with some more planning and time to start building the benches I would like to have the bench at 42-44 inches, right in the middle of the plug in.

Again I would stress lay out pieces of cardboard or something on the floor to where you think you want to place items. then make notes of where to put a plu and how high, where to put air and how high, etc on down the line.

also as mentioned you are about to spend alot of money!!!

three phase would be nice, but my PUD (public utility district) would not let me run 3-phase. I told the engineer my plans forthe house and shop, and he then set-up everything for two 320 amp panels. One at the house and one at the shop. He siad the only way to go 3-phase is if I was a business then I would be charged business rates for the running of the line from the road to the transformer between the shop and house, instead of about $4,000 it would have went to 1bout $12,000.

When the electrical inspector came out I found out I was not allowed to have two 320 amp panels, but since the PUD guy authorized it to begin with he had no problem.

steve

 

[schmism]

No electrial inspections were im at...

I meet with an AmerenIP "engineer" at my property the other day to talk about options.

She said the best option would be to run primary (12KV) in the conduit i put in underground and set a new padmount transformer on the edge of the building.

That would allow me to have a single 600amp 220v meter base and allow me to split off from there with the various services.

we only have 2 wire primary in my area (ie they dont have 3 phase on the pole)

 

[IslandManMitch]

I started out with a 24'x24'x12' high shop and ran out of space. I replaced it with a 48'x60'x12' high shop and 2 years later I am out of space again. I would have liked to have gone higher but due to hurricanes wind load rules I would have had to have interior walls. I don't think a man with "stuff" can ever have a building big enough. I have 200 amp single phase service because I would have to pay more than the building cost me to have it run to my shop. It would have to come from the hi way several miles away. Then I would have to pay commercial rates with a minimum of like $600 a month whether I used that much or not. No doubt three phase equipment is cheaper to use and buy. Yes I do have a single phase Le Blond but I paid twice as much for it as I could have bought one in three phase. I ran 1" sch 40 for air lines in the insulated walls. I used 1/4" plywood painted white for interior wall covering. I used drywall screws to attach the plywood that way I can remove it if I ever need to repair, replace or add to what is in the wall. My 110 receptacles are at 48" above the floor so it was easy to notch the plywood to go around them. If you have to remove a pole for a large door just add a load bearing header.

 

[JamesH]

If you are going to pour a concrete floor you should really consider putting the tubing in for radiant heating. One of the advantages of radiant in the floor over forced air heat is that the floor acts as a heat sink. When you open that big door and let all the heat out in the winter the floor can bring the temperature back up much quicker than a forced air furnace can bring it up where it is starting almost from scratch.
Connect that up to one of those outdoor furnaces and it makes a great way to heat. The furnace can burn wood that is cut off the property and can also heat the house and your hot water when the house is done.
Is the shed insulated? I looked at my options and plan to have a poly something or other sprayed onto the inside of all the outside walls. It does a great job to provide a air tight barrier. They recommended to me about 3". They quoted me about $2100 for my 30'x40' metal shed, but that does not include the ceiling.
Looking forward to hearing more about what you end up doing, I am also working on my shop.
Regards,
James

 

[CurlyDave]

Consider putting some plumbing in there. At a minimum, a big laundry-type sink. In sort of order of usefullness next up would be a toilet & a shower.

When I build my shop, I am going to have room for an old washer & drier. Greasy coveralls and shop rags get washed in the shop & my wife keeps them out of her nice new machine. A closet big enough for one or two changes of clothes might also be nice -- come back into the house already clean.