Shop light advice?

texasjohn · Nov 8, 2006

I'm going to electrify my 40X60 metal shop building. I've looked at all the various types if indoor/outdoor lights available... mercury vapor, metal halide, high pressure sodium, flourescent... etc.

Daytime is plenty bright.... have skylights ... there are three 20 ft bays and one skylight on each side of each bay... 6 total.

Peak is 17 feet. I thought I'd run a string of lights under the peak from end to end and use these for the general lighting. Then, a row on each side on individual switch. That way, when I am working on one side I can turn on that side string of lights... or both sides if moving all over the floor and need good light everywhere.

I plan to turn the lights on and off as needed. Outside lights will be over walk doors and have motion detectors and light sensors.

I'll be doing wood working, vehicle repair, maintence, etc.

I'd like to not have to replace bulbs very often or pay too much to the electric company. Am willing to spend more on initial install to get payback on reduced energy bills. However, the lights will not be on except at night, and that would be maybe 3 hours 4 nights a week.

Outside, I need the motion sensitive lights to show me the rattlesnakes and a separate light on one end up high to provide light in case I need to do things outside.

My current idea is as follows:

Inside lights: 8 foot flourescent shop light, 2 bulbs each, 6 total in each string running the length of the shop. 3 strings (center, right side, left side) = 18 total lights. I'm confused as to the options of bulbs...T12, T8, varouus ballasts (seldom gets below 20 degrees here)

Outside lights: big light = metal halide quartzx 400 watts
motion detector, 2 bulbs in each, 150 wats each bulb.

So... I know lots of you have faced this same quandry.... lumens for the buck... from your experience and research, what have you found that works really well, is reliable, and satisfactory to the pocket book?

Suggestions on my ideas, number of lights, kind, placement, etc. welcome

My electrical suppliers (have gotten bids from 2 electrical suppliers and Home Depot... went back and forth and got prices lowered several times) are in the $2000 range for the lights alone... no wire or installation which I will do with assistance from some buddies (final hookup by true electrician). Thus, I want to make sure that I "do it right the first time" if possible.

Dusty · Nov 8, 2006

Fluorescents are not terribly effective once you get much more than 8' off the ground. I find that they are fine for overall lighting, but not much good for working under where you need good lighting. I like metal halide best for outside and inside, and high pressure sodium second. Following up the list is Mercury Vapor. My local electrical supply house told me this week when I went in to get a mercury vapor bulb, that they were being discontinued, but the company that supplied the fixtures told me that they are still producing them. I use Mercury vapor lights around the house made by Regency. I have bought them from Lowe's and Home Depot in the past and they are $50 each for an outside street light type of unit. They have light sensors on the top, and late at night I turn them off. Turn them on in the morning, and as dusk they come back on. One other consideration when placing lights high is that you have to get up to them to clean them. Dusty

Ken_CT · Nov 8, 2006

Be aware that different types of lighting gives off a different color light. High pressure sodium gives a yellowish light. I have one in my back yard, and it is very bright, but I wouldn't want to do woodworking with it, especially if your matching colors.
Ken

Farwell · Nov 8, 2006

I have eight 8ft double bulb fluorescents in my pole barn and the ballast hum drives me bonkers.
Not sure what type of lights they are but with the high ceilings you have, you can probably use the type of lights used in ware houses and commercial shops. The lights put out plenty of light and the light color is good.
Farwell

rswyan · Nov 9, 2006

I have a 42' x 72' polebarn I'm finishing out. I plan to run twelve 8' T12 double bulb (75w per bulb) fluorescent fixtures with instant start ballasts, in four banks of three fixtures.

I currently have two fixtures hung and temporarily wired up and given how much light they throw I think 12 fixtures will be plenty ...... although if I install a 7' high x 8' deep loft across the back wall I may add some task lighting under it. My fixtures are mounted almost 12' high.

I installed a 70w HPS dusk to dawn light outside on one of the long walls (front) of the polebarn and it really lights up the approach - I was surprised at how well.

The T12 fixtures (sans bulbs) were around $700 and the HPS was around $80.

tlbuser · Nov 9, 2006

rswyan said:
I have a 42' x 72' polebarn I'm finishing out. I plan to run twelve 8' T12 double bulb (75w per bulb) fluorescent fixtures with instant start ballasts, in four banks of three fixtures.

I currently have two fixtures hung and temporarily wired up and given how much light they throw I think 12 fixtures will be plenty ...... although if I install a 7' high x 8' deep loft across the back wall I may add some task lighting under it. My fixtures are mounted almost 12' high.

I installed a 70w HPS dusk to dawn light outside on one of the long walls (front) of the polebarn and it really lights up the approach - I was surprised at how well.

The T12 fixtures (sans bulbs) were around $700 and the HPS was around $80.

Yep, the T12 HO's (110 watt bulbs) were recommended by my electrician (skip the electronic ballast ones, they're not as good). After installing 9- 8' fixtures in a 30x40x10 area, I'm glad we used 3 circuits (3 on each bank). One set will give good general lighting, two sets are good for seeing what you want to do and 3 sets feel like it's suntan time!

For that high ceiling problem, the lights can be suspended with conduit or chains.

EddieWalker · Nov 9, 2006

My shop is 24x30 feet with 12 foot walls. I mounted my flourecent lights right to the rafters at 12 feet. I put in four pairs of 8ft lights and it's very bright in there. I enjoy having a tall ceiling and wouldn't want anything hanging down to get in the way.

I also mounted a light under my shelf to give more light on my workbench, but in the year that I've lived here, I've never used it.

Eddie

bg71361 · Nov 9, 2006

________________________________________
My shop measures 30x70, I have 12' ceilings I installed the T8 8' fixture which takes 4 - 32watt bulbs each. I have a total of 27 fixtures on the ceiling and another 2 over my work bench. I am more than pleased with the lighting; my fixtures have the electronic ballast which are fine in cold weather.

I looked at the T12 HO 8' fixtures, that take the 110watt bulbs. I could not find the 110watt bulbs at Home Depot. Here is a link that shows the cost of a bulb any where from $12.00 to $15.00.

110 Watt - T12 - High Output - Cool White - 4100 Kelvin - Fluorescent - F96T12/CW/HO - Shatter Resistant Light Bulb

The industry is going to the more efficient T12's and smaller bulbs. The T12 4' bulb I used is I think the most popular bulb out there right now, by the case at T12 bulb cost me just under $2.00 each.

I would definitely go the same route if I had to do it again.

Good Luck!
Bill

texasjohn · Nov 9, 2006

Good info everybody.... I'll study up on your likes, dislikes and match to my needs.... you've givem me some stuff to avoid and to look at carefully...exactly what I was looking for...You guys are the best!

CTyler · Nov 9, 2006

I went with the 8' 110w HO bulbs in my 50x64x12 shop. Only lighting 50 x48 with them since we framed and finished off one side thats 50x16. There are three light fixtures on each switch, only really need one bank on at time.

LarryD · Nov 9, 2006

texasjohn said:
I'll be doing wood working, vehicle repair, maintence, etc.

I helped a friend of mine put lights in his wood shop and we used T-8's with electronic ballasts. He was concerned about color rendention so we used a tube with high CRI (89?) to give a more true light and allow him to see his finish work better. He has a 40 x 50 shop with 16' vaulted ceilings. We ran three banks of lights all switched seperately and the results are good. The light is very close to true light so for wood working, particularly finishing, he likes the results.

The T-#'s designator refers to 8ths of an inch, i.e. T-12= 1 1/2 inch tube diameter. T-8 is a one inch diameter and I think the current popular tube.

Her is a website that expalins some common dislikes regarding Flourescent lighting-
Lighting Design Lab Articles - I Hate Fluorescent!

BobRip · Nov 9, 2006

tlbuser said:
Yep, the T12 HO's (110 watt bulbs) were recommended by my electrician (skip the electronic ballast ones, they're not as good). After installing 9- 8' fixtures in a 30x40x10 area, I'm glad we used 3 circuits (3 on each bank). One set will give good general lighting, two sets are good for seeing what you want to do and 3 sets feel like it's suntan time!

For that high ceiling problem, the lights can be suspended with conduit or chains.

What is wrong with electronic ballast? I put two in the kitchen and the light is much brighter and the power consumption is down.

InlineDieselFan · Nov 9, 2006

Put your light on as many circuits ans switches as you can. Then you are able to adjust the lighting to how you want it.

I have a 42x48 shop 15 foot ceilings, the three 70 Watt HPS lights are on a swtch and a light sensor, I wish they were on three seperate switches. Then most of the time I would only have one light on, not all three.

Also it depends on how you have or will have your bays set up. I have a bathroom and office area, taking up a 12x 24 area, storage area above that. In the 12x16 work area I have two fixtures that are eight foot long and hold 4-4foot flourescant bulbs. In the wroking bay I have five of these fixtures. Then in the storage bay where the tractor, sits and PWCS, only two of these fixtures.

No matter how many or how big your lights are you will still need to have some sort of portable lighting, you can not light the under neath of your vehicles form the top very well.

steve

CATMAN · Nov 9, 2006

InlineDiesel kinda has the same idea as myself, when it comes to working on cars or pickups, you may consider a end bay with horizontal lights on the wall pointing inward to help see under the hood, but it seems like I am always using 500 watt halogen w/portable stand and trouble light. Try to anticipate where your shadow might be on some of your tasks to consider light fixture placement. I have heard of lights built right into the floor at some service shops, but I haven't personally seen it. (Dream Shop I guess) What color are the walls?

texasjohn · Nov 9, 2006

Walls are highly reflective.... building has radient barrier buble wrap on all sides and roof. The inside of the buble wrap is brilliant white.... This reflects light extremely well... The 6 skylights I have plus the white walls make it extremely bright inside during the day... almost dark glasses time!

Good points re needing portable light to see under stuff... I have a couple of these already.. so am good there.

I did some interesting calculations from the responses.... the number of square feet that an 8 foot fixture, 2 bulbs each, covers varies from 77 to 266 sq feet.

I am currently thinking Metal halide for outside, flourescent inside using T8 4100K bulbs, electronic ballast. Am still researching T5 bulbs, don't know if they come in 8'lengths yet.

Have been amazed at the different pupil lumens per watt from various light sources... varies from 29 lumens/watt for Tungsten halogen up to 190 lumens/watt for T5 5000K flourescent!!

More study needed before I make a decision... but have got good info

npaden · Nov 10, 2006

Remember that metal halide, mercury vapor, and high pressure sodium bulbs all require start up time that varies depending on the outside temperature. In colder weather regular flourescent bulbs can require start up time as well.

However, electronic high output flourescent lighting doesn't require start up time and is very energy efficient. I would incorporate some electronic ballast high output flourescent lighting regardless of your final choice so if you have to go out and get something in the shop on a cold winter night you won't have to wait 5 minutes for the lights to turn on so you can find what you went out there to get.

FWIW, Nathan

npaden · Nov 10, 2006

One other thing. Proper reflectors can make a HUGE difference. Under the inverse square law, for every foot away from the bulb the light travels the light strength reduces by 4 times. So with 17' ceilings you could lose a lot of light to your working surface. A reflector focuses the light and creates less loss. Even though your building is white inside you don't really want your ceiling to be brighter than the floor which is what you would end up without proper reflectors. I'm in the reef aquarium hobby and light is important to corals and studying reflectors you can sometimes get double the amount of light where you want it by using good reflectors.

Just my 2 cents.

caylor · Nov 10, 2006

I have a 40'x30'x12' shop and had initially installed flouresent lighting at the 12' eave height, and I now am in the process of replacing each of these fixtures with 300W halogen fixtures. Like the one shown here:

300 Watt 36" Halogen Shop Light

The halogen gives great light (and no buzzzzz) and while not the most energy efficient, I find that the amount of time I have them on is limited to the early morning and evening hours when outside is dark.

Dusty · Nov 10, 2006

I have a 500 watt halogen outside light that was seldom used. A few weeks ago, the mercury vapor light failed, so the halogen was put into regular service. It operates only during the dark hours and has a half power setting until the sensor detects movement, and then it goes to full power. I was quite surprised that after 5 weeks of no more than 12 hours a day use, the bulb burned out. While halogen lighting is very bright and doesn't have the hum associated with many of the other high output lighting, I don't believe that it is a good choice for longevity, but a great choice for high intensity lighting at an affordable cost. With some of the highest electrical energy costs being in the Northeast, energy consumption is something that I am always considering when making changes or purchases. Sometimes it is a trade off.... pay more for the fixture and bulb, and save on the energy, and other times it is less expensive to pay the energy bill. Presently the cost of a kilowatt hour is .09763 and next month it it going to .11 something. The delivery portion of our electric bill is almost equal to the cost of the energy that they deliver. So much for deregulation saving the consumer money. Dusty