Shop light decision: thanks!

   / Shop light decision: thanks! #21  
TexasJohn,

I heard somewhere that there is an incredible amount of electricity wasted thru "instant on" appliances. Apparently they draw energy when they are off, just so they will start up more quickly. Anyway, are instant on florescent lights drawing energy when they are "off"? Thought you may have seen something in all your research.

Thanks,

John
 
   / Shop light decision: thanks!
  • Thread Starter
#22  
Woodlot, I posted all that stuff so folks could decide what they wanted and design carefully for their needs. That said, I designed my system using this free software,
which requires a download and running the program which allows you to specify how many lights you will use, height they are mounted, type of bulbs, length and wattage, etc...

About 150 lumens at work table height is ideal from my perspective... that's what my design point was. I'm extremely happy with it.

Without using that software, my gut feel for your situation is as follows:

I'd use bulbs with the largest Kelvin color number you can get. The higher the number, the easier it is to see stuff.... in houses, people use lower numbers to set mood, show off skin tones better, etc.. but in a shop I wanted the light to be as white/bright as possible, thus selected 6500K bulbs. Get the maximum lumens per watt as well.

The best mix of all this for me was the Plilips Homelight Deluxe . If you use cooler, smaller Kelvin bulbs, then it is possible you may need to increase the number of fixtures to get more visible light.

To me, a T8 bulb is a much better selection that T12, which many of the 8 foot fixtures are...lumens per watt are usually better with T8 than T12.

I used 4 foot fixtures rather than 8 foot. My reasoning was that I could spread out 4 footers more an avoid shadows better than with 8 footers. It was the right decision for me. Two four footers were cheaper than 1 8 footer as well by a hair.

I used 25 4 foot double tube fixtures for 2400 sq feet.
You have 1620 sq feet, thus about .67X25= 17 such fixtures for you, if your ceiling height were same as me....but since it's 10', you need less.


I agree, 3 rows could do you fine. Maybe 3 rows of 5 = 15 fixtures. However, I did 5 rows for a 40' span as shown in the photo and am convinced that was the way for me to go. With 4' fixtures, there is a lot of flexibility in placement that you don't get with 8 footers. You can see that I concentrated the fixtures a little more over work areas and a little less over non intensive work areas. You may wish to do the same. I'd get a bunch of 2X4's or something and lay them down on the floor of the shop, 1 for each fixture placement on the ceiling.... eyeball whether you'd rather have 8' or 4' fixtures, and how many.

If you use anywhere between 15 and 18 4' fixtures, I KNOW that you'll have a bright work shop. Actually, the numan eye (excepting for macular degeneration/cataracts) really adjusts amazingly to light and you could possibly be happy with as few as 10 fixtures... without running the software to calculate the effect of ceiling height and fixture placement, hard to tell.

I have my lights on 3 switches, thinking that I'd cut off the bank(s) that I didn't need when working in the shop. I've discovered that I move all around the shop at present, thus leave all the lights on when I'm in there. Maybe I didn't need all the switches, but am glad I got them. Particularly since the center row of lights has a switch at EACH entry door, allowing me to cut it on/off easily. This allows me to get sufficient light to get a tool quickly or get over to the rest of the switches without killing myself.

I discovered it's EASY to spend A LOT on fixtures, I studied hard and settled on Lithonia and the cheapest ones I could find...Note that I got them for less than $18 each (below their cost) at Home Depot... and then selected the brightest refelector within that group. A reflector is extremely important to focus the light down... who needs it on the ceiling?

I got my wiring from the local metal recycling place. I discovered that I can get complete rolls of wire there for about 1/3 the cost of new at Home Depot... and the plastic is still on the roll... For some reson, it shows up there and it works for me. You use lots of wire... particularly if you install multiple switches at multiple doors.


jmc, I do not recall ever seeing mention of instant on lights drawing current when off... I don't believe it.... I think that the instant on is a feature of a particular kind of ballast. I'm sure I would have noticed a comment to that effect during my research, which included a focus on energy efficiency.

If somebody has facts to the contrary, please post a believeable web site with that information.

That's it, guys, hope it helps!
 
   / Shop light decision: thanks! #23  
Wow, Thanks a lot! Never expected such a detailed response. I feel like I've got my own lighting consultant :D . The fixtures I was considering did not have a reflector, I'm unsure if they take a T8 or not, and I had no idea what kind of tube to look for. I'm so glad I asked.

What about balasts. I've seen/heard some cheep shop fixtures that "buzz" loudly, and I want to avoid that. What causes that "buzzing"?
 
   / Shop light decision: thanks!
  • Thread Starter
#24  
The buzzing is in the ballasts... older design/type. There is no buzzing in the instant start ballasts.

I went thru all the pros and cons .... I believe that my selections avoided all the cons and maximized the pros... including cost... was amazed at finding the flourescent fixtures at Home Depot... if you can find for under $20 some 4 foot fixtures, double tube, instant start, with reflector, buy them. I purchased a metal knock out punch, cut a larger hole in the side of the frame where he cord enters, removed the 3 prong cord and installed 14/3 wire running from fixture to fixture... If you get what I got, I don't think you will be disappointed.

Almost all fixtures are either T8 or T12... Few, if any, take both kinds.
The measurement is in 8th of an inch for the diameter of the bulb. T8's are one inch diameter, T12 are 1.5 inches in diameter. Larger is not better, typically uses more watts and puts out less light than a T8.
 
   / Shop light decision: thanks! #25  
texasjohn said:
jmc, I do not recall ever seeing mention of instant on lights drawing current when off... I don't believe it.... I think that the instant on is a feature of a particular kind of ballast. I'm sure I would have noticed a comment to that effect during my research, which included a focus on energy efficiency.

If somebody has facts to the contrary, please post a believeable web site with that information.

TexasJohn,

I did a quick search on the energy thing and although the site did not mention the instant on T8's wasting energy, they pointed out that the T12's draw power even when they are off.

John
 
   / Shop light decision: thanks!
  • Thread Starter
#26  
OK... I'll research it myself..
Lithonia lighting, which I purchased, says this:

T5 lamp and ballast technology is a quantum leap in terms of performance and size. The 5000-lumen-output T5HO is 40 percent smaller than the T8! The MS5 Series meets the T5 and T5HO design challenges such as lamp size, luminous intensity and 35°C operating temperature, while featuring a diminutive appearance. Now a variety of demanding spaces can be addressed with compact, less-obtrusive, performance-driven luminaires.
This site says this:
Most existing fluorescent systems use T12 lamps with magnetic ballasts. T12 lamps are inexpensive and reliable, but they have several disadvantages. For example, T12 light fixtures draw power (about 6.5 watts) even when lamps are burned out. New T8 lamps with electronic ballasts are far more efficient and typically pay for themselves within a few years. When retrofitting a T12 lighting system, either the whole fixture can be replaced in its entirety or just the ballasts and lamps can be replaced with T8 components. T8 systems have many advantages over T12 systems, including improved efficiency, the ability to be dimmed, reduced heat output and zero energy use when lamps burn out.

This Sylvania site says:
OSRAM SYLVANIA introduces their QUICKTRONIC® High Efficiency Series of energy-saving electronic T8 instant start ballasts that use up to six percent (2 to 7-watts) less energy than standard electronic ballasts without compromising light output or lamp life. QUICKTRONIC® High Efficiency ballasts will operate 17-watt (2 foot), 25-watt (3-foot), and 4-foot 28-watt, 30-watt SUPERSAVER®, or 32-watt T8 fluorescent lamps.

QUICKTRONIC High Efficiency Series (QHE) ballasts also feature <10%THD and Universal Voltage. SYLVANIA QHE ballasts operate OCTRON® T8 lamps with maximum efficacy and high lumen output, and provide 30-50 percent energy savings when compared to T12 standard magnetic systems. Whether for retrofits or new construction, QHE ballasts are the energy saving choice for business.

So, in my book, the T8's are more energy efficient, in all ways, than T12's, even when burned out.
 
   / Shop light decision: thanks! #27  
Texas John -- Been a while since any posts on this. Just wanted to let you know I'm another happy customer of this (and the original ) thread. Had to do a search to find it , but happily I remembered the original. Now am subscribed to it. Am adding some lights and find your info extemely helpful, also glad to know the Pulse Start Metal Halide choice I made 2 years ago seems to be effecient , and up to date..... Sometimes even I make a good decision!!! Anyway thanks again for taking the time to post all this great info.. Where do I send the check?
 
   / Shop light decision: thanks!
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Dullpain, thanks for your comments, makes me happy:)

Glad to know that the info was some useful to you! Every now and then I get to pay back to TBN for all the good info I've gotten here... glad this was one of those times:D

Maybe you can post a photo of your setup one of these days so we get to see how it worked out for you.
 
   / Shop light decision: thanks! #29  
   / Shop light decision: thanks!
  • Thread Starter
#30  
I used self tapping sheet metal screws. It helped that I had a hydraulic scissors lift. I attached to the bottom part of the " C " purlin and ran the wire in the cup of the "c" .

BTW... welcome to TBN.... am honored to be your first post. I think you will find lots of interesting stuff here. If you will fill out your personal profile with some info, it will assist folks in answering to know the area of the country you are in, interests, etc.
 

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