Should I defect from Kubota

[LD1]

You just have to get to know the guys at the dealer ship.

Maybe talk with the service manager and/or some of the techs. Do they seem like nice helpful people that will be there for you IF you have problems, OR....do they seem like ******. What does the shop look like in there. Does it look like a nice place to work? Clean and well organized? or does it look like a run down shack with parts laying everywhere?

Also wouldnt hurt to ask about who is responsible to transport tractor for warranty issues.

And as others mentioned, ask around. IF he is the only kioti dealer, that means about everyone in the area probabally bought off of him. Do you know anyone that owns a kioti? Have you seen any out and about in your area? Maybe stop and talk to people.

But it is basically just spending some time and talking to people at the dealer. You have to trust your gut on this.

 

[CPM]

It's interesting that people don't mind shopping around and finding the right dealer. A while ago I was looking at a different model, emailed a few dealers and got some responses back of "support your local dealer". It's almost as if they don't want the competition - ie don't want to drop their prices.

How competitive are dealers on prices generally? Our Kabota dealer is in a very plush showroom and doesn't seem all that fussed about selling to me (I'm too small a customer, I guess) and the Kioti dealer is crammed into a smaller lot with stock outside, not under cover. Vast difference between the 2.

Also, comparing the 2 tractors, the HP is the same but the fine print still favours the Kabota e.g. Cat 2 3pt Hitch, PTO HP and a few other points.

 

[LD1]

If you are compairing the DK50 and the MX5100, those are two VERY similar tractors:thumbsup:

The kioti is about 200lbs heavier (3700 vs 3900lbs)
The kioti has about 100lbs more 3PH lift (2300 vs 2400)
And the kioti has a little stronger loader (2400 vs 2700lbs)

In the real world, I doubt you would notice any difference in either. If you are confident with BOTH dealers, you need to take both tractors for a test-drive. See what one has the ergonomics that you like best. See what one is laid out best for your tastes.

What is going to be the price difference on these two? And if you like the kubota better after all of that, is it going to be worth that much more?

 

[IndyIan]

If you are compairing the DK50 and the MX5100, those are two VERY similar tractors:thumbsup:

The kioti is about 200lbs heavier (3700 vs 3900lbs)
The kioti has about 100lbs more 3PH lift (2300 vs 2400)
And the kioti has a little stronger loader (2400 vs 2700lbs)

In the real world, I doubt you would notice any difference in either. If you are confident with BOTH dealers, you need to take both tractors for a test-drive. See what one has the ergonomics that you like best. See what one is laid out best for your tastes.

What is going to be the price difference on these two? And if you like the kubota better after all of that, is it going to be worth that much more?

Also what's the usage going to be for the tractor? High load PTO work? Loader work? Plowing fields? If you don't really need the PTO hp or aren't plowing, then drop down to a EX45 or 40 and get the difference in implements?
If you are going to use every PTO hp for some sort of production work then probably the turbo on the MX5100 is an asset.
I went with the DK40 and I haven't even used the PTO yet, all I really wanted was a heavy tractor with a strong loader and with most "options" included, which led me to Kioti over Kubota.

 

[IslandTractor]

As LD1 has pointed out, these the MX and DK are pretty much functionally equivalent at the 50hp level. I strongly agree with Indy that unless you have a clear and regular use for the extra PTO power of the DK/EX 50 that in every other spec the 40 and 45 are identical down to the engine block. Only the piston size varies. Think that issue through carefully as the difference in price can buy you a couple of implements which will certainly make a big difference in how effective you can be. For a given frame size, HP is often over rated as an indicator of tractor effectiveness. I would gladly go 20% slower on 10% of my tasks in order to use the extra money on an implement that would make a 50% difference on 25% of my usual work tasks. Hard to be real precise about these comparisons without real world data but the point is that the right implement can be 10x as valuable as 10 extra HP in the same tractor.

 

[radioman]

ld1 is right. it boils down to the dealer. Thats why I went with kubota. they treated me right. Do a search on models you want here on TBN and other tractor forums and see what kind of similar issues you can find. visit the dealers and go ask BOTH salesperson and parts dept and get their opinion and read their body language. Alot can be said from their reactions about known issues and how fast they respond on weather its an easy peasy fix or they are tired of that crap.

 

[Barnone]

I been owning JD and Kubota tractors for over thirty years for use on my small ranches in FL and NC. Granted I don't use them too hard and do keep up with the proper maintenance but have never taken them back to a dealer for anything. Done the repairs myself. Two of the dealers where I bought new tractors went out of business after many years of being open so I don't put much stock in finding the best dealer.
Also I would not worry about resale value. Like mentioned above, find a tractor that will do your requirements for a long time and don't count on getting a lot on resale.

 

[BleedGreen]

To suggest that a deere only depreciates 25% while the Kioti depreciates nearly 50% clearly indicates you aren't making statements rooted in objectivity. It's just an absurb comparison. Just as suggesting that because BC was bought by a Korean company they are somehow now less concerned with their reputation and quality is also plain not good common sense. Must be the green paint talking, or trying to justify the outrageous price paid for green. Around here, 9 out of 10 skid loaders are BC; they aren't going to put their good name on something that doesn't uphold their values. I love green - well engineered and very reliable. My next GT will most likely be a JD. But I'm not foolish enough to give them thousands more for less tractor.

I've had my Kioti for almost seven years now. I've been offered (and turned down) a price that is about 84% of what I paid for it. And from what I'm seeing the used asking price is similar for most modern Kiotis.

You are completely missing my point. Neither tractor in my scenario was any particular brand. One started higher, one lower. What I was trying to explain is in regard to "the tractor cost less to start with so it obviously should be worth less at resale time". The scenario is saying you need to look at how much the tractor cost to aquire and then what it was sold for and look at the percentage - that was all - but I appreciate you calling me absurd and commenting on the outrageous price everyone pays for green paint.

 

[LD1]

Also what's the usage going to be for the tractor? High load PTO work? Loader work? Plowing fields? If you don't really need the PTO hp or aren't plowing, then drop down to a EX45 or 40 and get the difference in implements?
If you are going to use every PTO hp for some sort of production work then probably the turbo on the MX5100 is an asset.
I went with the DK40 and I haven't even used the PTO yet, all I really wanted was a heavy tractor with a strong loader and with most "options" included, which led me to Kioti over Kubota.

As LD1 has pointed out, these the MX and DK are pretty much functionally equivalent at the 50hp level. I strongly agree with Indy that unless you have a clear and regular use for the extra PTO power of the DK/EX 50 that in every other spec the 40 and 45 are identical down to the engine block. Only the piston size varies. Think that issue through carefully as the difference in price can buy you a couple of implements which will certainly make a big difference in how effective you can be. For a given frame size, HP is often over rated as an indicator of tractor effectiveness. I would gladly go 20% slower on 10% of my tasks in order to use the extra money on an implement that would make a 50% difference on 25% of my usual work tasks. Hard to be real precise about these comparisons without real world data but the point is that the right implement can be 10x as valuable as 10 extra HP in the same tractor.

Along those same lines.....If you dont need every ounce of power, look at the MX4700. Like the DK40/45/50, the MX4700 and MX5100 are identical in all aspects, just less ponies under the hood:thumbsup:

As mentioned, at this point, I think the descision is going to have to be made more on ergonomics and dealer support rather than kioti vs kubota.

If you like the Kioti's ergonomics better and think the dealer is better, then its a no-brainer....get the DK. BUT...If you like the bota better and the bota dealer better, then only YOU can answer wether you think it is worht the extra $$$. Which how much extra $$$ is probabally yet to be determined at this point in the game. When you get serious and start dealing, you will know just how much the true difference is going to be:thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

Along those same lines.....If you dont need every ounce of power, look at the MX4700. Like the DK40/45/50, the MX4700 and MX5100 are identical in all aspects, just less ponies under the hood:thumbsup:

As mentioned, at this point, I think the descision is going to have to be made more on ergonomics and dealer support rather than kioti vs kubota.

If you like the Kioti's ergonomics better and think the dealer is better, then its a no-brainer....get the DK. BUT...If you like the bota better and the bota dealer better, then only YOU can answer wether you think it is worht the extra $$$. Which how much extra $$$ is probabally yet to be determined at this point in the game. When you get serious and start dealing, you will know just how much the true difference is going to be:thumbsup:

x2. At the very least, play the two dealers off against each other. I would be happy with either tractor so best price/deal should be high on the list of considerations.

 

[IndyIan]

Along those same lines.....If you dont need every ounce of power, look at the MX4700. Like the DK40/45/50, the MX4700 and MX5100 are identical in all aspects, just less ponies under the hood:thumbsup:

As mentioned, at this point, I think the descision is going to have to be made more on ergonomics and dealer support rather than kioti vs kubota.

If you like the Kioti's ergonomics better and think the dealer is better, then its a no-brainer....get the DK. BUT...If you like the bota better and the bota dealer better, then only YOU can answer wether you think it is worht the extra $$$. Which how much extra $$$ is probabally yet to be determined at this point in the game. When you get serious and start dealing, you will know just how much the true difference is going to be:thumbsup:

Except I'm pretty sure the MX4700 is stripped down abit from the MX5100, off the top of my head, I think its missing telescopic rear arms, a draw bar, SSQA on the loader, 3 pth sway links, and maybe the rear remote...
My local kubota dealer never brings any in for this reason, as it gets near the MX5100's price to outfit them equally... So you might as well get the hp as well.
I didn't really research the other brands in so much detail but Kubota is annoying with their all the optional equipment varying by each model and it makes cross shopping with Kioti tough, as Kioti just throws everything in on all hp versions in each platform.

 

[LD1]

Except I'm pretty sure the MX4700 is stripped down abit from the MX5100, off the top of my head, I think its missing telescopic rear arms, a draw bar, SSQA on the loader, 3 pth sway links, and maybe the rear remote...
My local kubota dealer never brings any in for this reason, as it gets near the MX5100's price to outfit them equally... So you might as well get the hp as well.
I didn't really research the other brands in so much detail but Kubota is annoying with their all the optional equipment varying by each model and it makes cross shopping with Kioti tough, as Kioti just throws everything in on all hp versions in each platform.

You may be right. But I think the SS QA and the rear remotes are options on BOTH models. Since the base tractor is the same, and the loader is installed afterward, I dont see A MX5100 loader costing less than a MX4700 if they both have the SS QA. They are IDENTICAL loaders.

Same for the remotes. That is something that is installed afterward I believe. And I dont see why it would cost more on the 4700 than the 5100. But you do have a valid point about the telescopic arms/stabilizers.

 

[Gittyup]

You are completely missing my point. Neither tractor in my scenario was any particular brand. One started higher, one lower. What I was trying to explain is in regard to "the tractor cost less to start with so it obviously should be worth less at resale time". The scenario is saying you need to look at how much the tractor cost to aquire and then what it was sold for and look at the percentage - that was all - but I appreciate you calling me absurd and commenting on the outrageous price everyone pays for green paint.

You put forth the numbers that portend a 25 vs 50 percent depreciation. Sorry, but that's an absurdly skewed bias not supported by fact. If one assumes an identical depreciation (probaby not exactly true but closer to the truth than the 2:1 difference you give), the $20K brand x is worth $15K and the $15K other brand is worth $11K. That's a net cost of ownership of $5K to $4K without considering the time value of the $5K not spent up front. The better resale value argument only hold trues if you get enough depreciation difference to offset the initial cost differences. I don't see any circumstance where you get there.

And yes, one is asked to pay a steep price for JD that is outrageous when compared to some of the competition. I think JD is outrageously priced, in general. However, I've paid that outrageous price before, and as I said, I plan to again because in certain types of equipment, there is no alternative that compares. I don't like the outrageous price, but pay it any way to get what I want. Just as you do. I just won't pay it just because it's green. The green has to warrant the cost difference, and in many cases it does not. And I'm not partial to picking on green. I use the same thought process for just about everything I purchase. Money is always king. The higher priced item has to offer me something I can't get other wise.

 

[CPM]

If you are compairing the DK50 and the MX5100, those are two VERY similar tractors:thumbsup:

The kioti is about 200lbs heavier (3700 vs 3900lbs)
The kioti has about 100lbs more 3PH lift (2300 vs 2400)
And the kioti has a little stronger loader (2400 vs 2700lbs)

In the real world, I doubt you would notice any difference in either. If you are confident with BOTH dealers, you need to take both tractors for a test-drive. See what one has the ergonomics that you like best. See what one is laid out best for your tastes.

What is going to be the price difference on these two? And if you like the kubota better after all of that, is it going to be worth that much more?

It looks like it's not the same model comparison. The EX50 has 7HP less to the PTO and only Cat I pto links, whereas the Kubota has Cat II. Not sure what that would mean to me, though.

The other big thing is the Hydrostatic version of the MX5100, which would be better for me as a newbie, as far as I can tell. Don't think the DK is HST, is it?

The big draw for me is the Cab on the Kioti. Aircon would be much appreciated. The question is, would it get wrecked in the bush? Better it than me getting a branch in the face - but at least I could duck!

I like the idea of going for a slightly smaller tractor and getting more implements. Can't get the 4700 here though.

 

[CPM]

Except I'm pretty sure the MX4700 is stripped down abit from the MX5100, off the top of my head, I think its missing telescopic rear arms, a draw bar, SSQA on the loader, 3 pth sway links, and maybe the rear remote...
My local kubota dealer never brings any in for this reason, as it gets near the MX5100's price to outfit them equally... So you might as well get the hp as well.
I didn't really research the other brands in so much detail but Kubota is annoying with their all the optional equipment varying by each model and it makes cross shopping with Kioti tough, as Kioti just throws everything in on all hp versions in each platform.

We can't get the 4700 down under anyway and the nearest real comparison I can see to the MX5100 (down under) is more like the EX55HST.

 

[IslandTractor]

We don't get the Kioti EX line in the US. The DKse line is a well appointed tractor available with HST and cab as options and lots of bells and whistles similar to the Kubota Grand L line. The DKse is available With 35,40,45 or 50hp The Kioti DS line has the same engines as the DK but an older frame/ operator station design, no HST or cab and is a more basic tractor at a less expensive price point. The DS is basically the older model DK with the newer engine. I wonder if the EX is something in between. Oddly however there is no 55hp tractor with HST in the US lineup and I believe the older DK55 is no longer sold.

 

[IndyIan]

We can't get the 4700 down under anyway and the nearest real comparison I can see to the MX5100 (down under) is more like the EX55HST.

It all depends on what you're doing I guess. For me, an MX5100 has no real advantages compared my EX/DK40. And the practical difference between Cat 1 or 2 is the size of the holes in the 3 pth, for this size of tractor. The 3pth isn't strong enough to need Cat 2 pins but its handy for implements that already have them.
It sounds like you want pto hp for some reason, so I guess there an MX5100 is better. Also it seems you have to get a cab in Aus to get the HST in the EX series? I'm not real impressed with that marketing tactic, but maybe they don't charge as much for the cab and HST together as they do here.

 

[CPM]

It all depends on what you're doing I guess. For me, an MX5100 has no real advantages compared my EX/DK40. And the practical difference between Cat 1 or 2 is the size of the holes in the 3 pth, for this size of tractor. The 3pth isn't strong enough to need Cat 2 pins but its handy for implements that already have them.
It sounds like you want pto hp for some reason, so I guess there an MX5100 is better. Also it seems you have to get a cab in Aus to get the HST in the EX series? I'm not real impressed with that marketing tactic, but maybe they don't charge as much for the cab and HST together as they do here.

Just seems to me that it's better to have more PTO hp for about the same money. The MX5100 also has a better turning radius, which could come in handy - about 8m compared to 10 on the Kioti. I would imagine this could make a difference in tight spots.

You can get the EX HST without the cab - it's just a bit more tempting from a price comparisson point of view. Albeit over budget!

 

[Reg]

Hi All

I've been looking at the Kubota MX5100 as my choice and have been offered a good price...

But then I went into a Kioti Dealer and had a look at a couple of their models and I can virtually get a Cab model, with more HP for the same price.

What am I missing here? It seems Kioti has a fairly good reputation. The downside seems to be ReSale value.

What do you think... is this too good to be true?

Re-sale "value" isn't predictable.
Up front savings ARE.
I don't see the point of considering re-sale value unless you plan to resell - or think you will HAVE TO in the short term.
There may be valid reasons to plan on replacing every few years, I can't think of one that applies to ME.
In the more likely 20+ year useful life of a tractor I would guess that they all approach the same "old tractor" value - unless one becomes a great rarity, but that is even more unpredictable.
Many/most asking prices are just that and only that, not something I would base a purchase decision on.

 

[MotorSeven]

Here's a real world re-sale example:

I bought a Ck30 in 2003 for $16000 and change. I traded it back to my dealer for a DK40 in 2008 w/almost 400 hrs on it for $11000 and change. There was an attachment swap in the deal, my used 5' brush hog and 6' HD BB for a new 6' hog and 7' HD BB.

Could I have sold outright for more money? Yes, I think I could have gained maybe around $2K. I have been ecstatic with my dealer so instead of wasting time, I gave him the business and I rode out happy:thumbsup: