Silverado 3500 HD capabilities

[kevinwak]

I love how everybody needs to justify the diesel on a cost per mile basis. Lots of the same people will not drive a truck if it doesn't have the $6000-$10000 loaded leather seat option. Where is the payback on these options?
Personally I would much sooner check the $10,000 diesel option box over the leather seat option box. I am okay with cloth seats and a non touch screen radio. To me towing with the diesel is much more relaxing, and that is worth something.

 

[Copperhead]

Thank God for all these choices! Isn't it wonderful to live in a country where we got them? People can spend their money any way they choose, even if it makes no sense whatsoever. I am not down on diesel in any way. I must not be as I have to purchase about 21,000 gallons of the stuff a year for my business needs alone. And there are some of us that like to run numbers to determine the best cost benefit ratio.

If the government had not gotten involved over the last decade in demanding more and more emissions stuff put on diesels, the choice would sway a little closer to diesel for sure. Most of that inflated cost on the dealer lot for a diesel centers around the added cost of just the emission stuff. And maintaining that stuff just adds even more pain.

As for any resale value, one thing that determines that is consumer demand. And diesel has some form of mystique on some folks. There is always a willing buyer of a diesel pickup out there, mostly so they can tell everyone they have a diesel. Take a look at the number of diesel pickups running around that probably never tow a bass boat, let alone something serious. I travel a lot, and I see them all the time every day. It seems to be more of a social statement in the pickup crowd than a true need for many folks. Else why would they have to put all kinds of stuff on the back glass to tell everyone they have a diesel? That glamour wears off pretty quick when things start eating into one's wallet to keep the thing going. And when, not if, diesel prices climb into the stratosphere like they did several years ago, many folks will regret the purchase.

If I was towing a lot, for long distances, and heavy, then no doubt I would opt for a diesel in my pickup. Since I don't do that frequently, it just didn't make a lot of sense. And a lot of other buyers, especially business users, are determining the same thing. But then, being on intimate terms with diesel engines, I know full well the way diesels in motor vehicles can really ruin your day when they want to. Downtime is money also for some of us. When one of these newer diesels decides it doesn't want to work and play well with others, your wallet can be negatively affected greatly in more ways than just parts. I just don't have that mystique for diesels that some have. If it could be justified for my use, I would opt for Natural Gas! There are many commercial semi's that are on NG and grossing 80K lb, and doing the job as good as any diesel equipped semi truck. If I could justify the added cost of the equipment purchase, and had a ready source of NG at decent prices, I would do the NG thing even over diesel in a heartbeat. It doesn't require any of the diesel emissions after treatment stuff which adds layers of complexity and cost. But pickup OEM's haven't gotten the NG thing totally up to diesel performance standards quite yet like the heavy truck engine OEM's have. The light truck OEM's always seem to be behind the curve on engine option availability.

Oh...and my 2015 2500HD 6.0L gasser extended cab has only cloth split bench seat and no touch screen radio also. Leather interiors are not my thing. Did come with the snow plow prep, LT, and Z71 packages though.

 

[mikehaugen]

As for any resale value, one thing that determines that is consumer demand. And diesel has some form of mystique on some folks. There is always a willing buyer of a diesel pickup out there, mostly so they can tell everyone they have a diesel. Take a look at the number of diesel pickups running around that probably never tow a bass boat, let alone something serious. I travel a lot, and I see them all the time every day. It seems to be more of a social statement in the pickup crowd than a true need for many folks. Else why would they have to put all kinds of stuff on the back glass to tell everyone they have a diesel?

I let my cousin borrow my tractor over the summer. He asked his friend to tow it. His friend didn't have a trailer so they used my cousin's.

So they (my cousin and his friend) show up in a lifted '07 cc chevy duramax with like 6" exhaust. Truck never goes off-road (he admitted this), the guy doesn't own a trailer (in fact this could be the first time he's pulled a trailer), so why a lifted truck? Why a duramax? To each his own I guess.

...and yes, I believe there was a sticker or two on it.

 

[kevinwak]

Thank God for all these choices! Isn't it wonderful to live in a country where we got them? People can spend their money any way they choose, even if it makes no sense whatsoever. I am not down on diesel in any way. I must not be as I have to purchase about 21,000 gallons of the stuff a year for my business needs alone. And there are some of us that like to run numbers to determine the best cost benefit ratio. If the government had not gotten involved over the last decade in demanding more and more emissions stuff put on diesels, the choice would sway a little closer to diesel for sure. Most of that inflated cost on the dealer lot for a diesel centers around the added cost of just the emission stuff. And maintaining that stuff just adds even more pain. As for any resale value, one thing that determines that is consumer demand. And diesel has some form of mystique on some folks. There is always a willing buyer of a diesel pickup out there, mostly so they can tell everyone they have a diesel. Take a look at the number of diesel pickups running around that probably never tow a bass boat, let alone something serious. I travel a lot, and I see them all the time every day. It seems to be more of a social statement in the pickup crowd than a true need for many folks. Else why would they have to put all kinds of stuff on the back glass to tell everyone they have a diesel? That glamour wears off pretty quick when things start eating into one's wallet to keep the thing going. And when, not if, diesel prices climb into the stratosphere like they did several years ago, many folks will regret the purchase. If I was towing a lot, for long distances, and heavy, then no doubt I would opt for a diesel in my pickup. Since I don't do that frequently, it just didn't make a lot of sense. And a lot of other buyers, especially business users, are determining the same thing. But then, being on intimate terms with diesel engines, I know full well the way diesels in motor vehicles can really ruin your day when they want to. Downtime is money also for some of us. When one of these newer diesels decides it doesn't want to work and play well with others, your wallet can be negatively affected greatly in more ways than just parts. I just don't have that mystique for diesels that some have. If it could be justified for my use, I would opt for Natural Gas! There are many commercial semi's that are on NG and grossing 80K lb, and doing the job as good as any diesel equipped semi truck. If I could justify the added cost of the equipment purchase, and had a ready source of NG at decent prices, I would do the NG thing even over diesel in a heartbeat. It doesn't require any of the diesel emissions after treatment stuff which adds layers of complexity and cost. But pickup OEM's haven't gotten the NG thing totally up to diesel performance standards quite yet like the heavy truck engine OEM's have. The light truck OEM's always seem to be behind the curve on engine option availability. Oh...and my 2015 2500HD 6.0L gasser extended cab has only cloth split bench seat and no touch screen radio also. Leather interiors are not my thing. Did come with the snow plow prep, LT, and Z71 packages though.

sorry, when I read your previous quote I had confused Chevy LT with gmc SLT.

 

[rmk700]

Well I'm certainly happy with the gasser also. May not get to my destination towing something as fast as diesels, but just means a little more seat time in my new truck.

I told the salesman, (with a very serious tone) I'll take this truck as long as you get rid of all the government mandated garbage on it. The look on his face was priceless.

 

[handirifle]

I will weigh in on this a little. We each have our reasons for diesel/gas choices, and for them hopefully they are happy with which ever way they go. I do not choose based on one or two factors, I weigh in the whole package. For me it was diesel, no question. My '06 is my first diesel and will not be my last. When our '05 Honda Accord gets traded off, which hopefully will not be soon (currently close to 180K on the clock), I will be seriously looking to replace it with the likes of a VW diesel (Jetta or Passat).

Like them or not, diesel autos are gaining ground and popularity. The very smog rules that many eco-greenines hoped would put diesels off the road, are in fact creating a higher demand for them. My neighbor has the VW Jetta TDI, at 49 MPG. A good friend just bought a new Passat TDI, 3 weeks ago, and is getting 45 MPG on an engine not yet broken in. By the way one thing that TOTALLY surprised me, was when his wife pulled up and parked in right in front of me, I was positive it was a gasser, until I saw the TDI on the back. She confirmed it was diesel. Almost as quiet as my Accord 3.0L V6. 15ft away from it and you would not be able to tell the difference.

To modify an old auto quote,(no replacement for displacement) there is no replacement for torque. Where the torque make a difference, is to compare it with a similar mileage vehicle, you would have a gasser with a tine 4 cyl or even a 3 cyl to get 45 MPG. (I won't get into the MPGe mess) Now fill that same car to capacity with passengers and see first off what mileage you get, and second, how good it passes slow trucks, and climbs hills. It's like going back in car years about 20 years or more. Today's (factory) diesels are nothing compared to those 20 or even 10 years ago.

Folks can justify, to themselves, which ever choice they make. They cannot however, condemn my choice because of their preferences. For me, feeling the torque when towing (or when empty) gives me a confidence I have never had from any gas tow vehicle. That equates for a more comfortable towing experience and more enjoyable vacation with my RV. SO that is MY personal choice and feelings. Your mileage may vary.

There is a lot of things a gasser can do that a diesel is not quite as good at, but the reverse is true as well, but the fact remains, diesels are becoming more popular every year, in cars and trucks.

By the way, Diesel Power magazine is now claiming the soon to be released, Nissan Cummins combo will have numbers more like 330HP/550TQ and tow rating of more like 13,000lbs. Sounds like they want to kick other half tons in the butt.

 

[Copperhead]

While tow ratings are impressive based on power and drive train combos, how it handles the load is another thing. While it is interesting that half tons are getting into 3/4 ton territory on power and drive trains, they are still not built upon heavy duty chassis' and suspensions that are structurally better for pulling a wide variety of trailers and loads.

Everyone seems to be on the HP/Torque game, but if the chassis and suspensions are not not HD enough, it is all moot. A 2015 Dodge Viper will kick out 645 hp and 600 lb torque, but I sure wouldn't want to strap a 12,000 lb high profile trailer to it, nor a livestock trailer with a load of steers in it. Just because the 1/2 ton offerings are getting the HP and torque numbers that can look impressive, does not mean they are totally up to the challenge of using it all effectively. Tow weight numbers may be also getting into 3/4 ton territory, but again, it all depends on what is being towed. Some people seem to forget that they can encounter 30 mph cross winds and a host of other things that can really play havoc on towing effectiveness, and without a substantial chassis and suspension package, you can bet there will be problems. An OEM might put a tow rating of 13,000 lb on a 1/2 ton pickup, but they always seem to have several caveats tied in that make it not play out the way someone thinks if they only see the marketing fluff.

My Detroit Diesel Series 60 12.7L in my semi might be rated at 500 hp, that truck will rip a 1 ton dually with a Cummins, Dmax, or PStroke apart without breaking a sweat, and comfortably tow a 53 foot, 12,000 lb trailer loaded with 47,000 lb of product at 70 mph, as it does it every week, even in that 30-35 mph cross wind I mentioned. Power ratings are indeed impressive from a marketing standpoint, what it really means in the real world is quite another thing.

And diesel is not the only game that does neat things. There are NG engines in commercial trucks that are comfortably working 80K gross weights right beside their diesel counterparts. And Ricardo (a GM partner) has developed a E85 V6 engine of only 3.2L that has the equivalent HP and Torque of a 6.6L Dmax diesel... and comparable fuel economy to boot! Cummins has been mentioned as something impressive in the Nissan offering. While neat, many seem to overlook that Cummins has developed a 2.8L inline 4 banger that runs on E85 and put out torque ratings equal with many V8 gassers in pickups today and reaches full torque at 2000 RPM compared to 4000+ RPM for the V8 engines, and blows the V8's out of the water on fuel economy also. The Cummins offering is going into production with some commercial vans and other applications soon. All of these engines mentioned only are required the same emission controls as a typical gas V8 engine, unlike the SCR/DPF junk on the diesels.

The future looks interesting.

 

[handirifle]

Copperhead
As I was stating, there is no replacement for torque. Yes your truck might have a 500hp rating but I bet the torque is 3 times that. That is what will pull the loads you mentioned, without a doubt.

No one at this point knows how heavy duty the new Nissan truck will be either. Yes, it MIGHT be sold as a half ton, but I doubt it. They can put any name badge on it they want, be it 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton etc, but as you said it's how it's built. No one is trying to compare ANY of the 3500/350 class trucks with a Detroit diesel. Nor is anyone claiming (including me) that diesel is the end to all engines, but automakers have been quoted as saying the diesel engines are the best way to approach the newer EPA standards of emissions and mileage. I have no idea what those numbers are from CNG or E85 vehicles. I do know E85 fuel is less efficient than fossil fuels, as the mileage numbers always drop on E85 fuels vs fossil.

But we have strayed far from the OP's first question, so I end it, on my part.

 

[Copperhead]

E85 mileage always drops when the fuel is used in a primarily gas engine. But not in an engine that is designed PRIMARILY with E85 in mind. The Cummins and Ricardo engines that I mentioned prove that out. In those cases, E85 engines have been developed that compete quite favorably with diesels in hp, torque, and fuel economy.

Cummins E85
Cummins is developing a 2.8L, E-85 truck engine with power of gas, diesel engines twice its size | Equipment World | Construction Equipment, News and Information | Heavy Construction Equipment

Ricardo E85
New Ricardo engine technology offers true flex-fuel engine optimization. | MOTOR Information Systems

True, we have strayed off topic. My fault.

 

[trollingfever]

my first diesel pickup was in late 2006(2007 model). i have had several since, enjoy the drive and torque on every startup. i also was interested in a vw diesel passat for the family car, i went to test drive one, and couldn't believe the interior space in front or rear seats. very comfortable car, and yes the torque is there; you are exactly right comparing a high 40's to low 50's mpg car; tiny 4 cyl gas wind up to the max on the highway. we bought a diesel passat, and like it as much as the diesel pickup. i also just ordered a diesel lawn tractor, and own a twin diesel fishing boat. now just to find a diesel weed whacker and leaf blower. lol

ps we took a trip(1200 miles rt) with friends that own a toyota prius; the vw passat got better mileage on the hwy at 70 mph. friend was quick to point out the cost of diesel was $.31 higher, and that the toyota wasn't built for highway trips, more in the city.