siromer tractors

[Localmotion]

Thanks for the welcome guys i need to locate the Serial No on my siromer +just had a new clutch fitted then noticed that i cant get it to go into X4 wheel drive wondering if this can have anything to do with the new cluch being fitted wrong:confused2:

Hi Colmacld - how's the homeland?

Not sure what model you have, but if 204S it is located on the left hand mud guard by the seat. If it is a newer EU model the serial number should be located on a plate on the right hand side of the steering column / instrument panel.

The new clutch could have caused it to become harder to get into 4wd - are you trying to engage it on the move or stationary? Try driving forwards slowly and engaging 4wd then - it might take some force, but should ease with use. If it still won't budge it sounds like something is blocking the internal 4wd linkage. If you let me know what model I'll see what diagrams I have, or contact Kath, Louise or Jeff at Siromer (Siromer Flatpack Tractors).

:thumbsup:

 

[Localmotion]

Another thought- unlikely but worth mentioning...

When the clutch was changed did the mechanic touch up any of the paint work around the bell housing / gear stick?

The 4wd lever uses a small spring loaded ball to click into position. On new tractors this is often jamed with paint, making them very difficult to shift between 2wd and 4wd - the same could have happened if your mechanic touched up the paint, or even removed and replaced the lever for any reason.

As I say, it's unlikely, but worth checking... :thumbsup:

 

[RonMar]

It looks like a Jinma, but the pics are not all that great.

This has been a fairly common question here over the years...

Clutch should have nothing to do with the 4X4 engagement. The 4X4 engagement occurs down in the gearbox and you are coupling the front axle/differential to the rear differential/gearbox. The clutch is only controlling the application of engine torque to the drive and PTO gearboxes. You don't need to push in the clutch, just apply pressure to the lever, with only one requirement. Localmotion's question alluded to it. Are you rolling when trying to engage 4X4?

If it is a rebadged Jinma, YOU MUST BE ROLLING, or if stuck, the rear axle must be rotating(wheel spinning) in order for the engagement mechanism to line up. IF it does it setting stationary, it is just a fluke that the parts happen to be lined up correctly. On my jinma imagine 2 round parts divided into 6 pie shaped pieces with every other pie slice removed. These 2 parts(called "pawls" in the exploded parts diagram) are installed so the 3 triangular teeth on each part face each other. When you push the lever toward the 4X4 position, you push one of these parts against the other. One is coupled to the front and the other is coupled to the rear. But since they are flat faced, one or both must be rotating for the 3 triangular teeth to come into alignment and the 2 parts to mesh together coupling you into 4X4. Because of the differences in gear ratios, tire size, rate of turn ect, between front and rear axles these two parts rotate at slightly different speeds when uncoupled. This is also why 4X4 does more soil/turf damage when engaged and why you don't run 4X4 on hard ground/asphault/concrete as it can damage the drivetrain if the wheels cannot slip on soft soil to absorbe the overall difference in drive ratios between front and rear axle.

So while driving along(or stuck and wheel slipping/spinning), just pull the lever toward the 4X4 position and it should eventually align and the lever will slide right in, no clutch necessary. Mine takes very little pressure to do this(2 finger tips pulling lightly on the lever), and usually engages within a second or two of pulling on the lever.

This is by the way the same as on any manual transmission 4X4 truck I have ever owned(all toyotas), if the hubs are dialed in, just pull the 4X4 lever from 2hi to 4hi whenever you want 4X4... Since there are more teeth in the toyota transfer, engagement is almost without delay.

Hope this helps...

 

[Localmotion]

Ron is quite right on all counts...

Firstly the Siromer brand is a slight enhancement of Jinma tractors. They are made in the same Yangcheng factory, the only differences being to ensure the Siromer brand meets EU road and health & safety regulations.

The model numbering system is the same: eg. Siromer / Jinma 200 is a 2wd 20hp tractor, while the Siromer / Jinma 204 is a 4wd 20hp tractor. The only difference is the addition of some standard features on the Siromer, which are not standard on Jinma models.

Also Ron is quote right that clutch is not needed to engage / disengage 4wd. However, these tractors are notorious for having a certain amount of play within the gearbox - I know because we supply and repair them. The play is not generally a problem, but it does mean that with new clutch plates the play may have been reduced and therefore 4wd might be slightly harder to engage.

As suggested before, try engaging on the move, and if that doesn't work check that nothing is obstructing the lever / locating ball...

 

[colmacld]

Thank you localmotion "Aye! its a bit chilly but been a good winter to get on with things" i will give your tips a try and let you know how i get on

 

[colmacld]

Thanks Ron i will give these tips a try and post how i get on

 

[g0rd0]

Hi,
and welcome to this site. I do not believe that your new clutch has anything to do with your machine not going into 4wd, is there any fluid in your transfere case? If so try this.
With the engine NOT running block your rear wheels and jack up your front end wheels off the ground trans in nutrel and have someone turn the front wheels around by hand as you opperate the 4wd leaver without useing the clutch, now put it first forward and try it again then go to reverse. Remember the engine is NOT running while you are doing this.
If your fluid levels are good and it still will not engage the front axle then there remove the clamps from cover on your 4wd drive shaft and check to see that the shaft is in fact operational. To do that just look at the shaft to see if it moves as the front wheels are rotateing. If the shaft is connected then the linkage inside the tranfere case must be your problem

 

[greg_g]

Another welcome, this one from an ex-Cathnesian. I lived just outside Castletown about 20 years ago. Here's a little amplification to the Gordo suggestions that might help. Engine off, rear wheels blocked. Both front tires off the ground for all tests.
1. transmission in neutral, 2wd/4wd select lever in 2wd. Spin one tire at least one full revolution in both directions, the other tire should react accordingly. No skips, jumps, or unwanted noises should manifest themselves. This indicates your front differential and outboard drive gears are healthy.
1a. remove front driveshaft cover or housing, spin one front tire again. The shaft should turn, again with no unwanted noises. If you're wondering why, there's a full time connection between the driveshaft and the front differential. When the tractor is moving, the shaft is turning - even with the 2wd/4wd select lever in the 2wd position. When you move it to 4wd, the driveshaft is engaged at the end that's connected to the transfer case.
2. transmission still in neutral, position yourself between a front and rear tire. Put one hand on a front tire, the other on the 2wd/4wd select lever. Move the tire back and forth slightly while moving the lever from 2wd to 4wd. You should feel a positive engagement in both hands. But both front tires should still turn. This indicates that the transmission is engaging the transfer case.
3. put transmission in gear, select lever still in 4wd. Try to rotate either/both front tires, neither should move. This verifies that the front drive is properly mated to the transfer case output shaft. The front tires won't rotate now because the driveline is connected all the way to the rear tire. Since they won't move, neither will the front.

All this is normal. It's what you WANT to see/hear. Any deviations then should point to the area at fault

//greg//

 

[RonMar]

I don't think that is quite right Greg, If you lift the front axle in 2WD, and spin one tire, the other tire may or may not spin in the opposite direction, depending on the drag in the system. IE: as you spin a tire, if the driveshaft can rotate freely, the other tire may just set there. Same as if you get stuck in slippery stuff. Driveshaft spins and one wheel spins and the wheel with traction just sets there. Now if you put it in 4WD and spin a wheel on the lifted axle, the driveshaft cannot turn so the other wheel will/must turn in the opposite direction...

Wether the tractor is in gear or not makes no difference. You are not coupling to the gearbox, you are coupling to the rear "driveshaft" which runs thru the gearbox right into the rear differential.

This exploded gearbox pic shows it pretty well. I think it is part 47(cant hardly read it) that is the 3 toothed pawl that is engaged by the 4X4 lever. That pawl is bolted to the front of the shaft that runs right back into the rear differential. in this case that shaft also carries the secondary gears and is how engine torque from the primary gears makes it to the rear diff.
http://www.johnsjinma.com/files/DriveGear.jpg

 

[greg_g]

I don't think that is quite right Greg,

It's close enough. The examples you offer have both wheels on the ground. Resistance. With both wheels off the ground, the reactions should be as I describe.

Whether the transmission is in or out of gear or does make a difference. With the tranny in neutral, the immobile rear wheels are isolated from the rest of the drivetrain. Remember, I said these tests are performed with the engine off, the front wheels off the ground, and the rear tires blocked. In this state, putting the tranny in (any) gear will lock up the transmission. But if the 2wd/4wd is in 2wd, you can still spin the front wheels. Once you move the lever to 4wd however, that locks the entire drivetrain front to rear.

Can I go out on a limb here, and speculate that you've never actually performed this series of tests? I got to know them quite well personally when one of my 4 Chinese tractors lost front wheel drive. It's this same series of tests that isolated the problem down to the sliding gear that connects the transmission to the transfer case. Others have used them to isolate front differential and front driveshaft damage. So whereas I may have the wording off a little here and there, they're for the most part tried and true processes.

//greg//