Skeptical...

[woodsman74881]

The GFI trips because you have a bonded neutral on your generator that bonds the neutral and ground at the generator. When you hook it into the house panel, which also has a bonded neutral it causes a small feedback through the GFI recepticle. Not unsafe, but will trip the GFI every time. Its like trying to daisy chain from one GFI to another using the Load side of the GFI recepticle. Won't work. I might be a little too technical, Sorry.

 

[MotorSeven]

Interesting. I have a cable and ground rod on my Pto generator that I pound into the ground. I have not yet hooked it up to the house so will that take care of the GFI issue, or is it just a saftey measure?

 

[woodsman74881]

Its always a good safety measure! Whether your GFI problem is fixed depends on how the neutral is in your generator. It only takes .005 Amps (5ma) difference between the hot and neutral to trip a GFI. A GFI measures the current flowing down the hot line and back on the neutral line. If any of the current is bled off somewhere, the GFI trips. A GFI does not need a ground to work. The ground just gives a safe path for stray current to flow so you don't get shocked. Electricity always takes the path of least resistance.

 

[Dutch445]

Back to the original deal, what was given for delivery expectation at the time of sale? and at that point,
how long before the 18 mos promo ended?

something that has changed on the JD purchase order is a new signature box above any equipment and pricing that
basically states that the order is subject to the manufacturer being able to fulfill the order and there is no liability if
there are delays beyond their control. there is also a statement about the price, and that the price shown on the
order is subject to receipt of the product before a price increase happens.
It looks like this is to reduce the chance a situation like you have encountered, another CYA statement.

i would have thought if the dealer knew the promo was ending, (and it sounds like you and the dealer were aware of it)
the dealer should have gone thru a different avenue with Honda or even another dealer to get you a machine, either from
another dealer or region. being a new Honda dealer here, i can't speak for their practices yet, but i know with JD equipment
when there is a shortage in 1 region, we can usually pull inventory from some place else to fill an order, esp if a program
is ending. so i ultimately put the blame back on the dealer, for putting you off for too long knowing the program was ending.

 

[kenmac]

whats the longest outage you've run it for?

My Generac XL5500 died after the second week long outage...mine was also 10 yrs old and never missed a beat until then

Don't use it for power outages. My son has. Probably a couple days at the most. I have used it for other things ,but not continous for days on end

 

[TCBoomer]

As a general rule, If your generator has a bonded neutral you need to use a transfer switch to prevent neutral feedback to the line. If your generator has a floating neutral you can use a panel lockout type of switch to hook up generator to house panel. Contact the manufacture to find out what type of neutral your generator has. I prefer the floating as an electrical contractor. Always make sure you have a good ground!!!! You or someone else could get hurt otherwise.

Great info...thanks!!

Interesting though...the Honda guy at the dealer told me that the EM series was for use with a transfer switch, yet the specs list it as floating neutral. And he also said that the EB series is used for the bonded neutral, so no transfer switch should be used. Backaxxward from what you say. Another reason for me not wanting to do business there if they don't know their products intended use.

I do have a dedicated ground rod just for generator use so I'm good there.

 

[TCBoomer]

Interesting. I have a cable and ground rod on my Pto generator that I pound into the ground. I have not yet hooked it up to the house so will that take care of the GFI issue, or is it just a safety measure?

I believe it's totally independent of the GFCI concern and mainly a general safety precaution

eta...ooppss lol didn't read the post after yours, he answered you already

 

[TCBoomer]

Back to the original deal, what was given for delivery expectation at the time of sale? and at that point,
how long before the 18 mos promo ended?

something that has changed on the JD purchase order is a new signature box above any equipment and pricing that
basically states that the order is subject to the manufacturer being able to fulfill the order and there is no liability if
there are delays beyond their control. there is also a statement about the price, and that the price shown on the
order is subject to receipt of the product before a price increase happens.
It looks like this is to reduce the chance a situation like you have encountered, another CYA statement.

i would have thought if the dealer knew the promo was ending, (and it sounds like you and the dealer were aware of it)
the dealer should have gone thru a different avenue with Honda or even another dealer to get you a machine, either from
another dealer or region. being a new Honda dealer here, i can't speak for their practices yet, but i know with JD equipment
when there is a shortage in 1 region, we can usually pull inventory from some place else to fill an order, esp if a program
is ending. so i ultimately put the blame back on the dealer, for putting you off for too long knowing the program was ending.

I ordered the gen on Nov 5 and was told there were 6 on order currently. Expected delivery was within 2 weeks due to hurricane Sandy and all the demand. When I applied online for the 18 month promo I didn't pay any attention to the expiration date...wish I had, I would have saved the doc! The dealer is who told me about the promo and knowing I'd qualify, I applied when I got home. I did save the approval doc but no expiration date is listed other than the time/date stamp of when I saved it. The current promo ad for 12 months does in fact show an expiration date of 12-31-12 and yet he told me it's still in effect as of last Saturday...yeah ok

2 weeks pass...no generator. Then told by Dec 1...the 1st comes and STILL no gen. Then told by the end of the month (Dec) for sure. Finally get the call on Jan 3...remember the exact date because I was home sick with the flue. Went to pick it up on the following Tues evening and that's when I'm informed that the 18 mo deal expired. And this was after at least a 1/2 hour of me waiting around for the paperwork. In the end...I was pizzzed!

I'm willing to give the dealer the benefit of doubt and assume they didn't know it expired...remember Wells Fargo was doing the offer not Honda finance. But that's no excuse for not honoring the purchase contract we had and speaks volumes of how they conduct their business. But in the end, it could be a blessing the deal went sour, because if what woodsman said about floating and bonded neutrals is true(not that I"m doubting him), the EM series is not intended for use with the xfer switch.

 

[TCBoomer]

I'm actually surprised the dealer hasn't called me back yet, considering how many times he called last week. Thinking about those conversations, I got the feeling he was nervous that they were going to be stuck with this generator if I didn't buy it.The last I spoke with him was last Saturday when he offered the discount to cover the finance charge from Honda finance if I went that route. He said he would call me back yesterday(Wednesday) since they're closed on Mondays and he was taking Tues off.

Admittedly I started to second guess the little voice in my head and all the comments you guys made...and take the deal. Mainly because it was by far the cheapest/best deal i could find for the Honda...and the effective 0% finance which is what enticed me in the first place. But I knew better and it appears my stubbornness paid off. If in fact the EM series isn't compatible with a xfer switch...I INTEND to ask him and can't wait!!...forget it, end of subject and I don't want it or the EB series. Honda can go pound sand for all I care:cool2: lol

So now it looks like either the Generac 5931 or the PTO unit from Northerntool will suit me. One thing I want to do before I make a decision is to run my tractor up to pto speed and see what the noise level is, esp inside the house. When I use the MMM it's loud, but the noise is mostly from the mower. When I use the broadcast spreader, the noise level isn't bad. But I never paid much attention to what it sounded like without hearing protection on. I'm pretty sure 540 pto is about 2600 engine speed

 

[EE_Bota]

For what little welding I need done, I have use of several at work so not much need or interest there. But thanks for the suggestion.

I have a strong interest in a PTO unit now and have been searching all I can. I found an old thread that Soundguy talks good about his Northertool unit and the price isn't bad at all. But then I found another lengthy thread that had a comment from Neil at Messicks stating the Tiger Power is no longer made. I wanted to call and inquire about it, but no sense now. So far all I've found with a decent review and price is Northerntool.

But I should also mention that lengthy thread gave me reason now to consider some of the cons about a PTO unit.

I want...I want...I want lol, question is WHAT do I want!?
The Honda naturally

I've got the Northern Tool 7200 watt unit. I seems fine, but I have had it for years, and I haven't lost power once in that time (for more than an hour.) That's essentially why I bought a PTO version...I know that losing power is fairly rare for me so I'd have an engine to maintain with no real need to ever run it. Most times, if it is lost, I can wait the few hours it takes for it to come back on. But if I can't or am not willing too, I can have 7200 watts pretty quickly.

It sits on a pallet on a moving dolly in the corner of my garage. In that scenario, storage is right compact. And I can store lots around it and above it.

If I need it, what I have to do is:

Get the tractor.
Hook up the carryall.
Roll the generator out of the corner.
Back the carryall into the pallet.
Drop two pins I made into the pallet to pin it to the carryall.
Hook up the PTO.
Connect the cable. Connect up the ground rod.
Start generating.

I didn't have a carryall before the generator. So using the carryall for other things is a bonus. And when I say "pallet" I am not talking about what most would think...I built it myself out of thick boards, all of them screwed and glued to think members. The generator got lag bolted to that. The pallet itself is really quite small...as is the generator. I suspect it is slightly less than half the size of a smallish shipping pallet.