Skid steer snow blower on tractor loader?

ruffdog · Aug 16, 2021

The point being made by the Messicks video is how much power is really made at the FEL lines. This 60hp tractor has 9.5gpm at 2800psi which amounts to only 15.5 hydraulic HP. They wanted to make the point that just because it fits on the tractor, it doesn't mean it will work.

4570Man · Aug 16, 2021

ruffdog said:
The point being made by the Messicks video is how much power is really made at the FEL lines. This 60hp tractor has 9.5gpm at 2800psi which amounts to only 15.5 hydraulic HP. They wanted to make the point that just because it fits on the tractor, it doesn't mean it will work.

The op isn’t planning on doing that. He knows the tractor hydraulics can’t do the job. He’s planning on building a pto pump setup.

dstig1 · Aug 16, 2021

The internal tractor hydraulics are probably never sufficient to drive hydraulic attachments like that, but the PTO mounted pump pack is how it is properly done. They discussed both but still made it seem like a PTO mounted pack was never a good idea. My point was simply that a properly sized system of that nature would be perfectly fine, and proven by the fact that they are manufactured and used regularly. I don't believe anyone here has suggested running off the tractor's internal pump.

grsthegreat · Aug 16, 2021

They wont work on internal pump. My pto pump puts out at least twice the flow and 1,000 psi more than the tractor.

hayden · Aug 17, 2021

The Messick's video is good, and covers most of what people have said here...

1) Tractor hydraulics aren't powerful enough.

2) A properly sized PTO power pack can provide sufficient power

3) There is more power loss in a PTO hydraulic pack + drive motor than in a shaft drive

So my take is that there is no reason it can't be done and work well, provided everything is sized and engineered correctly.

oldnslo · Aug 17, 2021

Hayden
Yes you can build a PTO power unit to drive a front mounted snow blower. Like you stated the components just need to be sized correctly.

what input speed are you looking at for the blower? 540 or 1000 RPM? No clue what skid steer operate at.

ruffdog · Aug 17, 2021

My toolcat has a rear 540 rpm pto that is hydraulic and the specs say it is 25 HP. Last winter I tried my 5 foot blower for the first time and it was in deep snow (2-3ft)(sleet) that was very heavy (like sand). I never stalled it and was surprised it did that good, even through plowed banks (4ft). With using specs and formulas, you should be able to size what you need.

hayden · Aug 17, 2021

oldnslo said:
what input speed are you looking at for the blower? 540 or 1000 RPM? No clue what skid steer operate at.

I've been looking at the hydraulic specs for SS blowers, presuming that if I meet those specs I will get sufficient blower and auger speed for good operation. And I'm leaning towards the higher end of the specified flow rates because I know my PTO snow blower works much better at the highest speed I get get. But in a hydraulically driven blower, I don't know how the flow rates translate into blower or auger RPM.

I'm NOT planning to convert a PTO blower to a hydraulic motor, mostly because I want to keep my existing PTO unit operational until I've proven any hydraulic replacement.

grsthegreat · Aug 17, 2021

Skid steers can have between 25-40 GPM AND 3,000 to 5,000 psi. They dont have pto systems, at least not that i have ever seen. My own rear power pack only produces 3,000 psi at 15 gpm. Thats all a 45 hp tractor pto could power.

the last skid steer i rented was 100 hp.

ruffdog · Aug 17, 2021

When you get close to the numbers you want, you will have to decide on a motor package on the blower. There may be some overlap on the specs so you can decide what displacement motor will better fit your needs. Do you want more grunt for drifts or farther throwing? A smaller motor normally runs hotter so you need better cooling.

Beaver Cove Deere · Aug 17, 2021

hayden said:
Tempting, but I don't think so. I think the tractor would pack down a 12" snow fall enough that it would be difficult for the pull blower to then pick it up. I also have a number of areas where I really need to be able to go in auger-first. Especially when I need to break open a path to reach the propane tanks for filling. I can be cutting into 3' of snow at that point - way more than the tractor can drive through, even with very aggressive chains.

You'd be wrong. My nearly 1000 pound blower can be adjusted to be as aggressive or as easy to scrape. I can also use the full weight of the blower on the rear scraper edge

Beaver Cove Deere · Aug 17, 2021

hayden said:
So I'm really interested in whether anyone has experience with a 3ph mounted tank and pump assembly, or perhaps has built one. As I said earlier, I think I need about 20 gpm, but the snow blowers I've seen don't specify the pressure. So in the absence of a spec, I'm presuming 3000 psi. I think some skid steers probably go up to 5000 psi, but I think I'm OK holding it at 3000. With that, 20 gpm at 3000 psi should take about 40 PTO HP which I have. In fact, I might just need 5000 PSI to get equivalent power to what I have now. The snow blower is the only thing that really bogs down the engine, so it's consuming the full 55+ hp available at the PTO. 40 HP would be comparatively under powered. I don't want to have less power that I do now, at least not in an y significant way.

One thing I like about this whole approach is that I should be able to leave the hydraulic power pack in place, and easily swap the blower and bucket as needed. And removing and reinstalling the power pack should be pretty easy too - just like any 3PH implement.

Yes. I have a 72" Provonost and the loss of power is substantial and frankly a hindrance. I'd take my JD and the 84" Normand blower in any storm, any any conditions over the NH/Provonost arrangement any day. No questions asked.
Both machines are 56 HP at the PTO and the NH is a larger frame.

hayden · Aug 17, 2021

Beaver Cove Deere said:
Yes. I have a 72" Provonost and the loss of power is substantial and frankly a hindrance. I'd take my JD and the 84" Normand blower in any storm, any any conditions over the NH/Provonost arrangement any day. No questions asked.
Both machines are 56 HP at the PTO and the NH is a larger frame.

So the pronovost is hydraulically powered from a PTO pump? What are the pressure and flow from the pump, and the expected flow and pressure specs for the blower?

metalbender · Aug 18, 2021

I did up a pto powered front blower for my fel last year. Still need the fel to unload deer feed in the winter, when it is available. Mine is powered by a chain case with a shaft to the front. SSQA on the blower, limit chains to prevent shaft issues. Price came in at around 2k. Some pics are in the snow equipment section. I'm also still able to use my rear blade when I need it.

shooterdon · Aug 18, 2021

SnowVac 60 Front Mounted Snowblowers - 3 Point Hitch PTO Snow Blowers for Utility Tractors

When I was doing my due diligence, I found this option, but it was too rich for me. I liked that it was easy on/off and self contained. Did not like having another engine to maintain but I could have lived with that. Price killed it.

I looked at your snow history and it appears you get less than I do. Your fears of compacting snow are the same ones I had, but I have had no problems. The pull blower works well in that regard.

You may want to look at preventing the need to move three foot piles of snow by moving your propane tanks to a more easily accessible location. Not too expensive to do if that is the only issue you need to address. But if the only way to deal with some of your snow is to auger into three foot mounds you will need a front mount blower. And unless things have changed, there are no affordable options.

BTW, I miscalculated my propane needs the first year and did not clear the snow to the tank. I had to deal with almost two feet of snow. The pull blower needed two passes but I was done in 10 minutes. I did not want to tear up the grass so I left 2-3" of snow on the ground, but I could have gone right to the ground.

hayden · Aug 18, 2021

shooterdon said:
SnowVac 60 Front Mounted Snowblowers - 3 Point Hitch PTO Snow Blowers for Utility Tractors

When I was doing my due diligence, I found this option, but it was too rich for me. I liked that it was easy on/off and self contained. Did not like having another engine to maintain but I could have lived with that. Price killed it.

I looked at your snow history and it appears you get less than I do. Your fears of compacting snow are the same ones I had, but I have had no problems. The pull blower works well in that regard.

You may want to look at preventing the need to move three foot piles of snow by moving your propane tanks to a more easily accessible location. Not too expensive to do if that is the only issue you need to address. But if the only way to deal with some of your snow is to auger into three foot mounds you will need a front mount blower. And unless things have changed, there are no affordable options.

BTW, I miscalculated my propane needs the first year and did not clear the snow to the tank. I had to deal with almost two feet of snow. The pull blower needed two passes but I was done in 10 minutes. I did not want to tear up the grass so I left 2-3" of snow on the ground, but I could have gone right to the ground.

Thanks for the pointer. I share your resistance to yet another motor. It's kind of the whole point of a PTO. Also 66" would be too small. The 84" would be nice, but $20k is a bit pricey.

I'll look into the pull-behind units a bit more.

As for relocating the propane, that would be very difficult since they are buried tanks.

Beaver Cove Deere · Aug 18, 2021

hayden said:
So the pronovost is hydraulically powered from a PTO pump? What are the pressure and flow from the pump, and the expected flow and pressure specs for the blower?

No idea on pressure or flow as it was a complete snowblower package from them.
The pump is run off a 1:4 speed increaser. It's had a lot of rather heavy use in MA. It's not so powerful to chip any branches under the snow and it did eat an old school metal trash barrel and didn't break the sheer bolt, it just stops the auger. Not so great on slush at all. In fact, I don't even bother trying.

The Normand INV 84 on the other hand is an absolute animal. First blow is always tough cause the driveway is Maine dirt and Maine dirt just grows rocks somehow. I end up replacing a few sheer bolts but it's for good reason when the machine is trying to send baseball sized rocks. It will send rocks no problem if they don't get jambed in the works. I take absolutely no chances with the chute pointing to the house or the garage at anytime.
I blew about 1/2 width thru a slush and water mixture that was about 6" deep. Gone.
It's a great combination but I've not given it a real blizzard workout to date because it's a weekend place and I have a plow guy because I'm not full time there yet. I've only done a 12" storm but a lot of clean up and moving his snow pile.

dennis103 · Aug 18, 2021

I have an Erskine hydraulic snow blower with the rear PTO power pack. It works very well. The only thing I would want to do differently is the way the pump is mounted. I have to put the pump on the PTO shaft. The pump weighs around 80 pounds. It is very heavy to man handle into place with the tank mounted to the 3 point hitch. I would have the pump mounted to the tank and use a PTO shaft like all the other implements.

dennis103 · Aug 18, 2021

Oh one other thing. When I first got the unit it didn't have an oil cooler on the tank. Erskine said it wasn't necessary with just a snowblower because of the colder temps. I ended up adding the cooler after using it a few times and laser temp checked my fluid @ 160 to 180 degrees.

grsthegreat · Aug 18, 2021

mine mounts to the hitch also...it slips onto the pto splines. i do not look forward to hooking that thing up. i dont think a pto shaft would work on mine as its up close to the tractor body and i lift it up quite high. looks like it would be a radical angle for a pto shaft. i would have to do away with the legs to use a shaft.
mine does not have cooler. i too used a ir gun and temps never too bad. if i ever used the thing in summer powering something else i would need to add cooler