Skurka: Anemic Kubota Loader

[DAP]

Ok Ok, I can't stand it any more. In a mere 2 weeks, more than 3 times, you've stated directly your displeasure with your LA402 on the 2910.

Is it that bad? Poor lift capacity - poor cycle times - or BOTH?

Bob, what are the printed specs for that machine and are you realizing the factor spec?

Are you saying your TC24 can lift more than the LA402 on the Kubota?

Are the Kubota Loaders LA402 really that bad?

 

[Henro]

I can say for sure the LA402 is not that bad a loader. It's acutal lift capacity may be more than it is rated at for all I know...would not surprise me.

The loader should be sized for the tractor's weight I think. Too strong a loader on a tractor could be a bad thing. Increased opportunity to lift the rear wheels or maybe tip over if the extra weight it lifts is not kept low when transporting.

I've moved literally hundreds of tons of dirt fill with my B2910/LA402 and have been impressed by its performance.

By the way, I think Bob was saying that the TC24 loader may have slightly higher of a lift rating than the LA402 does. A point of interest, since the TC24 is a 24HP tractor and the B7800/B2910 tractors are 30 HP. Not sure how the tractor weights compare...

One might also question the curved hood/loader arms issue. Never seemed to mean much to me...my main issue is the bucket blocking my view... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Do like the curved stuff, but I even made my tractor worse by putting a guard over my hood...and that has not been an issue either... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Youare]

I believe I have the same loader on my L3000DT. I have no complaints with it's performance it will lift a full bucket of rock, dirt, and even wet dirt. It does have enough power to lift the rear wheels of the tractor off the ground if there is no weight on the 3PH.

I think if the loader had any more power things would start breaking on the tractor. I had a loader on a Ford 8N that could lift more but I also broke a front spindle once pushing it's limits.

Randy

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I'll stick with my statement: it is anemic.

Side by side comparisons the Kubota 402 will dig as well, but does not break out wet clay soil as well as the NH 12LA, nor does the 402 lift as high as the little 12LA. Cycle times are fine, no problem there.

The fact that the 12LA is a small frame tractor loader makes that more impressive, or makes the 402 more anemic. Your choice. I simply feel the Kubota is a weakling and I never realized it until I was able to side-by-side comparisons with another machine. Often times I have used a machine and then gone somewhere else and used a different machine, and under those circumstances you don't realize how good or how bad something else is. But when both of the machines are parked side by side and you are working on a project that allows you to use both and switch between them, then you are really struck by the difference and how good one is and how bad the other is as a direct comparison. The fact that the 402 loader is on a mid-frame machine and I can make direct comparisons to another loader on a small frame machine shows the weakness of the 402.

Compare a 402 loader with a LA14 on a 30hp NH and the NH has over 1000# more breakout and 16" higher lift wtih another 200# of capacity.

I think what it boils down to is that you expect more out of a bigger machine, but the Kubota does not deliver it. Henro makes a good point that the loader should be sized for the machine. The little NH weighs nearly as much as the Kubota.

Now in all fairness to the Kubota, it is a great machine. Most of their tractors are excellent, but the B2910 has really never let me down, there are some things that took longer than I expected, and others that were accomplished faster than I thougth. It has been 100% dependable. And to Kubota's credit, it is my understanding that they are coming out with a 403 loader that will have greater capacity. But the 402 is anemic for a loader on a tractor the size of the B2910.

 

[fishman]

Bob,

You are probably one of the few people on this board who have had any extensive direct side-by-side experience with a TC24 and a B2910. However, your sample is not statistically valid, so it has limited applicability to the real world. Hydraulic pressure can vary among tractors of the same model, as we have seen in the past. Depending on how the dealer set it, it could be really powerful, or not. Tire configuration, ballast, operator comfort, all of those enter in to the equation. The only thing you can say is that your TC24 is superior to your B2910 in its current configuration when you are operating it.

I stand by the earlier statement I made when we discussed this a couple of weeks ago. There isn't any difference between the TC24 and B2910 loader specs. The fact that they are similar in weight leads me to believe that loader specs are based on tractor weight, not horsepower or exterior dimensions. I believe others have mentioned this as well.

Both are fine tractors with similar capabilities. Calling one anemic while praising the other seems odd given this fact.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

fishman, obviously my statement is my opinion.

Also I believe it is a RELATIVE issue. To me, it seems logical that two tractors of similar size should have loaders of similar ability. To me, it seems logical that a smaller tractor should be less capable than a larger one and conversely, a larger machine should be more capable than a smaller one.

So using the relative discussion I believe that the 402 is anemic because it is a larger machine as compared to a smaller 12LA (the specs are very similar but still favor the 12LA). Further, a 12LA on a TC21 or TC24 would really directly compare to a B7510 or B2410 or B7610 using a corresponding Kubota loader, if you compare size to size similar tractors and the comparably sized machines have loaders that are much weaker.

Now if you go up in scale the Kubota 723 loader is an excellent loader! I blows away the Kioti 130 loader on the CK30 tractor. It is bests the NH 14LA on the TC29 or TC33. So I am not saying that all Kubota loaders are weak. I am saying that with their smaller machines, when you compare them to roughly similar size equipment from other brands the loaders are weak, and you can actually compare a smaller non-Kubota up to a larger Kubota. For example, the Kioto 21hp CK20 with the 120 loader is virtually an equal machine to the B7800/B2910 with a 402.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Bob has some good first hand experience with this stuff that allows him to draw some good direct comparisions. I have to agree with him that Kubota could do more to beef up their loaders. One thing to make note of is not to get overly obsessed with specs, but rather go operate a tractor and buy what feels best for the kind of work you need to do. There is more and more of a theme comming out latley that specs don't matter so much. How many posts to see you about people complaining about weak loaders... Few to None. Too many people fixate on this rather than the actual operation of the machine.

Bob - Just outta curiousity, what other differences can you draw between the two tractors?

 

[jrlichina]

Well to make a fair comparison make sure both loaders are operating at the same pressure. The TC24 may be adjusted higher than spec'ed and the Kubota may be lower than spec. Next compare the diameter of the cylinders on the both loaders, if they are the same I'd bet the operating pressure on the TC24 is higher than the Kubota, because for the most part the geometry of the loaders is most likely the same and the only other real factors are cylinder size and operating pressure that relate to performance.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I think that the TC24 has larger cylinders. I'd check but I am out of both right now.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> Bob - Just outta curiousity, what other differences can you draw between the two tractors?
</font>

The B2910 is overall more comfortable than the TC24, I think largely because the operator's platform is larger. The TC24, being a smaller machine has my knees (I'm about 6' tall) in a position where I can turn off the headlights with my knee if I turn over my right shoulder to look backwards, the B2910 is just enough larger than when I look over my shoulder my knees don't hit the cowling under the dash; I actually mounted a switch on the cowling to power a 12 volt outlet I installed on the B2910 and I've never switched it off with my left knee! On the TC24, if I turn to my left, or if I hit a big bump, my right knee can hit the throttle, again because of the small size of the operators platform. The adjustable steering wheel, suspension seat & armrests on the B2910 make longer time periods in the seat easier to deal with. The engine of the Kubota is smoother sounding. The B2910 seems to do a better job with a box blade, I'm not sure why, but I strongly suspect it is the combination of the additional 6hp and the 3 range transmission.

I also feel the B2910 is more stable on a side slope, but I prefer to use the TC24 in places like grooming ditches because it maneuvers around better, it feels pretty much like you are riding a goat and will go anywhere you point it (even if you shouldn't point it there). I also perfer the TC24 in any and every tight space because the tractor turns so much tighter that I can work more easily in the trees or in between trees and the pool house, on paths, etc. The TC24 has a lot of power in a small package and that makes tight quarter jobs faster than the B2910. In the open areas, I think the B2910 is easier to work, but perhaps exactly becuase it is slightly larger and more powerful. For work like using a PHD, they are basic equals (at least with my soil). For snowblower work, I prefer the TC24 with the FEL off, but again because it is easier to get into areas and to turn.

I'd actually like to try a TC29 one day and compare it to the B2910 because that would be comparing two modern 30hp tractors of roughly similar size. I've played with a TC30, but it has been a few years and I don't think I could draw a fair comparison between the B2901 and the TC30.