Small Rifle help

[thingy]

Just kidding about the cow,,,those accidently killed cows cost more than most,,,plus all that hambuger,,,,,,
Beavers,,,,if I lived closer to the beaver problem,we could kill two birds with one stone,,,,but I don't,,,,thingy

 

[MossRoad]

Mark,

You've recieved just about every option possible for what you started this post about. Killing beavers and muskrats. Good luck with your decision and please update us on what you decide and the results.

This thread has gone to the point of getting into the small details of shooting and comparing the little things that don't really apply to you. Those of us who are really into it will debate, compare and discuss every single small variable there is in a weapon, caliber, bullet, poweder, scope and trigger. If there is something that can have an affect on how the weapon performs, there's something out there to discuss.

As a new shooter, this is something you might enjoy reading, but it's not that important in the overall scheme of things. I know guys who have spent thousands of dollars on cleaning gear for the rifles to try to get another 1/8 of an inch accuracy. They will spend even more on different powders and bullets coming up with the magic combination for each rifle and pistol thay own. And that's just the target shooters. The hunters who really get into this will also spend allot of money on different things to improve there odds of getting an animal. But we're getting into the very, very extreme end of fine tuning here, and to be honest, there is no right answer.

In your case, find a caliber that you like with a weapon that feels comfortable to you. Buy the best glass you can afford and learn about proper marksmanship if you want to shoot them from any distance.

If you just want to kill beavers and not go through all of this, buy a 12 guage shotgun with some 3 inch BB's. Get a spotlight and wait for them to show there heads. That's what I'd do.

Good luck,
Eddie

I agree. It ain't like he's competing for a spot on the Olympic team. He's controlling pests, for cryin' out loud!

If it were me, I'd just keep my Ruger 10/22 and sneak out for closer shots than a hundred yards. Do a little scouting, find the beavers' preffered area and go to the closest pond edge towards evening and pick them off one a day. I found muskrats tend to be morning folks, so I'd find their bank burows and wait. When they swim out, air bubbles pop up behind them and you can follow their general direction. They are creatures of habit. You can just about guess where they will pop up. That's why we were able to pick them off with the wrist rocket.

But that seems kind of a waste of a good pelt. Maybe he should trap them (which would probably be more productive, anyway) and harvest the furs. Or find someone that wants the furs and let them trap the animals.

 

[N80]

The pelts around here aren't worth anything. Ours don't get as big as the one's in those pics and because it is warm here they don't develop a thick enough coat to be desirable.

I agree, a .22 and stealth will kill one. But with a misplaced shot it might take it quite some time to die. I hate beavers but I'm not one to want any living thing to suffer needlessly. A single barrel 12 ga with BBs seems to be the cheapest and most effective alternative if you can get close enough. I have not found that to be a problem.

In regard to bullet penetration and fast kills, shot placement is extremely important. Our deer rarely get much over 200 pounds. Magnum rounds are fine, but 30-06, .270, .308 are more than enough to bring them down. Some will run a ways even with a heart shot and in thick brush it may take a minute or two to find them. No big deal. I recently switched from my 30-06 to a more accurate .270 with a better scope and even though the .270 is smaller, I'm dropping them in their tracks due to better shot placement. I always get an exit wound with those calibers. However, I killed a hog a few weeks ago with a broadside shoulder shot with the .270 (I don't even know what grain bullet I'm shooting). It dropped him like a sack of rocks at over 100 yards and he hardly even kicked....but no exit wound.

 

[EddieWalker]

George,

You remind me of a very important point concerning Thingy's desire for an animal to drop in it's tracks. The exit wound carries the energy of the bullet with it as it exits the animal. A bullet that does not exit the animal and does not create an exit wound, absorbs the full energy of the bullet!!!!

Thingy might be looking at this from the wrong angle. Maybe you need a softer bullet that won't have as much penitration. One that will expand so much as to not leave the animal!!!

I like the exit wound in my kills myself, so it's not something I've looked into. I do remember some discussion on this years and years ago, but not enough to be able to say anyting with any accuracy. At least it's another option.

Eddie

 

[RavensRoost]

The only advantage of an exit wound that I can think of is a blood trail. However, if you hit it right and still have no exit wound, you won't need one. Our whitetail deer (Coues) in AZ are small and I always get an exit wound with my 7-08 using 139gr Hornady Interloks. Also get one on pronghorns with same set up.

RavensRoost

 

[gsganzer]

George,

Thingy might be looking at this from the wrong angle. Maybe you need a softer bullet that won't have as much penitration. One that will expand so much as to not leave the animal!!!

I like the exit wound in my kills myself, so it's not something I've looked into. I do remember some discussion on this years and years ago, but not enough to be able to say anyting with any accuracy. At least it's another option.

Eddie

I think Eddie has a valid point. When Thingy steps up in bullet weight, he might also be getting a heavier constructed bullet that might expand less on a deer sized animal. Penetration completely through an animal is a good thing IMO, but not if you used a heavily constructed bullet that just penciled through and never had a chance to expand or transfer much of its energy to the animal. That's again why Barnes probably recommends a bullet that's one weight lighter then you'd normally use for that size game.

Like everything, there's always trade-offs.

Back to the original posters question regarding caliber. My vote is for a 223 in a bolt action that he likes. It's a cheap round to shoot with a ton of different loads available and every manufacturer makes a gun chambered for it.

My perfect arsenal of calibers would go like this:

1. 22 long rifle for plinking and tiny critters
2. 223 for pest animals
3. 22-250 for pest animals that won't let me get close enough
4. 257 (any flat chambering) for deer
5. 300 win mag for elk
6. 375 H&H for animals that can hurt me
7. 458 Lott for animals that scare me to death

 

[1bush2hog]

"Cow would work,,my neighbors got a few,,,thingy" or what about that pony, or one of those dogs?


I know you said rifle help, but my vote goes for 12ga 3 1/2 full choke w/#4 shot - No scope needed. easier to get on target quickly, deadly at 65 plus yards, less chance of ricochet, etc.

Then again, I like shotguns

 

[RG_Upton]

Just another thought.... If the range is inside 100 yards or so, a carbine in .357 Magnum or .44 Magnum might be a good choice for this size game. Marlin, Winchester and Ruger make lever actions using these cartridges. Because of the large caliber, the energy is dissipated quickly into whatever it hits and over-penetration is not too great an issue.

Many years ago, my wife took a few deer with a Marlin 1894 carbine in .357 Mag. -- one of them with a lightly loaded cartridge rather than the heavy handloads just for the carbine. That shot was lethal but hit lower than expected, and the deer had to be tracked about 100 yards. Due to the slow moving bullet and the lighting, she still remarks on seeing the bullet rise and fall as she watched through the riflescope.

 

[cp1969]

The exit wound carries the energy of the bullet with it as it exits the animal. A bullet that does not exit the animal and does not create an exit wound, absorbs the full energy of the bullet!!!!

All a bullet remaining in the animal means is that the bullet didn't have enough power to plow all the way through. Energy is a poor way to determine stopping or killing power. Caliber, bullet weight & shape probably have as much or more effect than kinetic energy once velocity is high enough to break skin.

Example:
.223 Remington, 55gr @ 3100fps = 1172 ft-lb energy
.45 Long Colt, 255gr @ 860fps = 418 ft-lb energy

.223 is virtually guaranteed to stay inside an elk whereas the .45 LC has a very good chance of going clear through.

Which do you want to use?

 

[thingy]

7MM mag,,,you're going to have an exit wound,,well,,with any thing I've used,,on a deer that is,,,don't know about hollow points and them ballistic tips,,but I bet even with them in a deers side. No trouble with bullit exiting with the 165 grain federal premium boattail either,,,its just it is about the same size as entrance hole,,,guess I'm just complaining about that round,,,seems like I used to use 175 grain [nonpremium stuff],and it made a pretty good sized exit hole,,,started using these 165 grain boattails,,for some reason,,maybe I just wanted to spend more money,,don't remember,,,maybe 4-5 years ago,,,I only shoot maybe a box every 3-4 years,,so,,I'm just getting around to complaining,,I'm slow,,,but this year after shooting a 7 point behind the ears and exit hole same size as enterance hole in skull,,,decided to get some other shells,,,saw this x-bullit,in federal premium,,,guess again I wanted to spend more money,,and here I am,,never even shot one yet,,but it sounds like it might be the ticket,,,,don't shoot much,so price ain't an object here,,,we'll see,,,,yeah,know the meat blowed out don't mean every thing,,,,,but if exit hole ain't bigger than where bullit goes in,,than that bullit ain't expanding,,,this don't apply to your normal hollow point,,,thats what I 'm talking about,,,don't eat the ribs,,,,like to see one I could stick my fist in,,well,,,,but,,,,a jfk exit hole,,thats it,,,,,,,beaver,,,like I said,if I lived close enough,,we could help one another in this,,kill beaver,and do exit hole comparisions,,,,,,thingy