Smart Home Wiring

RobS · May 19, 2002

I guess I'm really getting lazy... instead of searching the 'net I'm throwing my question out to my TBN buds. Experience tells me I'll get better info anyway /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Here's my question: I'm getting ready to run all the phone, network, video wiring in our house (doing this part ourselves). I've settled on two CAT5 and two RG6 coax cables to each room for the most part. Can I pull all four of these cables into a single work box in the destination room? Can I get faceplate/terminations for all four together?

Also, anyone have suggestions for cable purchase on line? I checked into Crutchfield and they actually seemed reasonable. Our electrician suggested Kirby-Risk locally which I'll call tomorrow.

Thanks ahead of time for the help. I'm firing up my favorite search engine now /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Inspector507 · May 19, 2002

Rob,
You can put all of those cables in one box, but it sure will get crowded and tight when you try to terminate them to the plate. You'll probably have to buy a blank faceplate and make your own holes in it to mount the jacks.
If it was me doing it, I'd probably use a DEEP 2-gang box with a blank faceplate that I could mount my own jacks into.

DocHeb · May 19, 2002

Don't pull into a box, but coil the wire up in the wall. The installers I've talked to like 24 - 36" of cable ends left to work with. Use metal mud plates to mark the spot and the drywallers can zip around them. It is hard to get the Quad Shield RG6 into a box without torquing the jacks and cover. Try to avoid outside walls to avoid insulation interference and cold air infiltration. Some people recommend running big conduit to each room for future expansion, but again, don't terminate into a box. If you can access the walls from the basement, the conduit is unnecessary. Run 2 Quad Shield lines to the most likely spot outside for satellite TV and terminate them within an exterior junction box. For some good information on supplies and installation/explaination, see <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/>Leviton Voice and Data</A>. The Leviton products cover the entire spectrum, and are better than the products I saw at Lowes. Make sure the you use Cat5e, not Cat5 for your network. It will give you 1000kbs, which will give you a couple more years before obsolesence. Use it for your phone and doorbell lines also for future capability. Around here this material is sold by Home Depot and the price is reasonable. Most electrical supply houses are now also carrying this, and will carry the odd item you may want the the Big Orange doesn't have. Leviton makes four-jack plugs that can be covered by regular duplex covers. If you do your own terminations get the proper 110 Punch Down, RJ-45 Crimper, and Quad Shield RG-6 Crimper and Stripper tools - they will make it fun.

tanner · May 19, 2002

Rob -
I have recently completed construction of a new home and we put in a complete network/phone system, and Direct televison system. Pulling two Cat 5e and two RG6 to every room (several locations in some rooms) is what we did. I have a small router and patch panel that enables easy switching between telephone and computer network for the Cat 5 runs. We used Leviton wall plates and jacks. Try www.futurehomesystems.com for wall plates, jacks, etc. For cable, take a look at www.cablewholesale.com. Finally, www.bestbuy.com is a good source of small routers and patch panels.
Hope this helps!

shade2u2 · May 19, 2002

I used a 4 in 1 cable (2 quad shield RG6 & 2 Cat 5E in a 3/4" PVC jacket) that I purchased from IC Intracom [http://www.icintracom.com/catalog4/index.htm]. They are a wholesaler only, but I was able to buy a 500' spool through my work at about $230 including shipping. This is a high quality product.

This stuff is somewhat bulky to run, but you only have to do it once to each room to end up with 2 of each line. Conduit is not needed, since the jacket protects it well. Cutting & stripping the blue jacket requires a sharp blade. The basement looks pretty bazarre with all these big blue cables coming out everywhere. /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I terminated 2 boxes & 2 face plates in each room with 1 RG6 & 1 Cat5 in each box. As already mentioned, running 4 to one regular outlet box creates a challenge with respect to space to handle the wires. If doing it again, I might use the deep boxes mentioned & run all 4 to it in order to eliminate the number of plates in the wall. I'll probably use the Leviton type plates (1 cable & 1 phone outlets) available at Lowes or Radio shack. The blank face plates that could be used for 2, 4 , or 6 wires do look pretty slick & are probably available at Lowes also. I have not picked out the junction box that I will use in the basement to bring this mess together yet. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

This is the only time that I've done this, so can't say if this cable is the best. Let me know if any questions... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Check out this link if you haven't already:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=rural&Number=113868&fpart=1

MossRoad · May 19, 2002

You can get faceplates that are modular and will accomodate just about anything. They have 1,2,4,6 and up blanks that take snap in modules for rj11, rj45, RCA, F type, BNC, fiber optic, etc... You can get larger gang boxes that have single face plates. They can accomodate the RG6 without kinking it.

I think you are right about 2 cat5s and two RG6s. You might want to go with more CAT5 and use it for phones as well. It gives you some flexibility in the future.

DavidInNH · May 19, 2002

I have a similar installation. I installed mine in '93 and there wasn't nearly as much to choose from then. I have Mod-Tap modular face-plates installed on double wide boxes in each room. I have a Mod-Tap modular patch panel in the boiler room that uses the same modular panels that the outlet boxes do. I used the double wide boxes because I didn't think I could terminate 2 RG-6 and 2 CAT-5's in a single wide box.

I wish I had run more CAT-5. I've used some of the spair pairs in a couple of spots, but I don't like to. Its been really handy, I installed Direct-TV in a couple of rooms and just used one of the spair RG's. If you have any doubts about how a rooms is going to be arranged, run some pull cord so you can pull runs later.

-david

RobS · May 19, 2002

Thanks everyone for the help. As usual, TBN comes through in spades!

<font color=blue>I think you are right about 2 cat5s and two RG6s. You might want to go with more CAT5 and use it for phones as well. </font color=blue>

My thinking was one cat5 for network stuff and the second one for phone. MR, you're suggesting even more. What am I missing /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MossRoad · May 19, 2002

When we wire an office, we run two voice and two data to all locations. The wire is cheap and you'll never have a chance to open your walls again, so run more than you'll need. In your case, the connections are what's going to bite your wallet. So just leave two of the unused wires coiled up in the box.

Also, home security can use CAT5 and you can even run video over CAT5 now, up to 1000'.

I don't see wireless making a strong showing in the home market for a while longer. It is cheap and it works, however, it still has serious security risks that the average home owner(not that you are average) doesn't want to deal with yet. I read a story in the Chicago Tribune recently that said some people with laptops and wireless network cards walked around the loop in Chicago and looked for open networks. They expected to find some, but they found 600! So, I'd avoid it for a while until those issues are addressed.

One more important item. Come up with a naming convention and label all wires now, so you won't have to trace them out later. A suggestion would be:
basement CAT5 00xxx
first floor CAT5 10xxx
second floor CAT5 20xxx

Then label the RG6:
basement RG6 01xxx
first floor RG6 11xxx
second floor RG6 21xxx

This allows for 10 types of wires and 999 connections on each floor. There are probably better schemes, but just develop one and stick to it.

butzkeg · May 20, 2002

If I were you, I'd save the money on all the CAT5 and jacks, then just buy a wirless setup. You would easily be able to get all you need for under $300 and a lot less work to boot.

Check out <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.linksys.com/> linksys.com </A>

rf33 · May 20, 2002

I think that two CAT5 should be enough for each room, unless you are going to need more that 1 network jack and 4 phone lines in each room that is. Remember that CAT5 or 5e for that matter has 4 pairs of wire in it. With plain old telephone service (POTS), each line requires only one pair. With CAT5 having 4 pairs, you can actually have 4 phone lines per cat5 wire.

Having said this, I also think that it is pretty cheap insurance to run more wire when the house in in the construction phase, as it is really pretty cheap / easy to run it at this stage, and stinks to have to add later.

RobS · May 20, 2002

<font color=blue>I also think that it is pretty cheap insurance to run more wire when the house in in the construction phase</font color=blue>

I think I'll be pretty well set with 2 cat5 lines. My other form of cheap insurance will be to run a couple of empty conduits from the basement to the attic /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MossRoad · May 20, 2002

I'd avoid splitting out pairs for phone lines. Use one CAT5 cable for each connector and punch down all eight wires to a CAT5 RJ45 jack when you terminate it. The wire is inexpensive(less than $100.00 per one thousand feet) so don't skimp here. You'll be happy later when you need to add something and the wire is already there. Eventually, sophisticated home phone systems might go voice over IP, so you'll be covered if that happens.

shade2u2 · May 20, 2002

Mossroad,
Can one use standard phone plugs with RJ45 jacks?
Rob,
Check this sight for <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mjsales.net/quickport.htm/>Leviton QuickPorts</A> for info on wallplates/jacks.
I did run some empty conduit from our basement to attic, which means that I will probably never need it./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

MossRoad · May 20, 2002

Technically, no. In reality, yes /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. They just snap right in and latch in place just like an RJ11.

JDIceman · May 20, 2002

Rob,
I think you will be fine with 2 cat5e & 2 coax. Make sure all are homeruns, do not loop any. If you must loop the only one that could be looped would be the voice cat5e. I would not put cat5e & coax in the same box, I would use the metel plaster ring screwed to the stud, placing them so cat5e's are on one side of stud and coax is on the other side. I would use this method even on exterior walls as you can always stuff extra insulation into hole to stop cold air drafts. Most definately install empty conduits from basement to attic as large as practical with nothing smaller than 1". I did this in my house, 1-1",1-11/4",& 1-11/2", and have installed something in each of those. Make sure you label every wire on both ends and also sketch the layout of your house or use an extra drawing you might have and mark those id's onto the drawing this will help you tremendously, and make sure that drawing is kepted after the project is completed for future reference. Graybar is a national electrical,voice,data supplier that will have everything you may not find elsewhere. Home Depot is very competitive here in the Youngstown,Ohio area. Please feel free to ask any questions, I will be glad to help you, ( it's that 790 brotherhood thing ).Just in case your wondering this is my occupation. good luck & best wishes, Chuck

MossRoad · May 20, 2002

Our Gray Bar is pretty sticky on selling to businesses only. If you have a business account, they are OK.

RobS · May 21, 2002

Thanks Chuck, sounds like the voice of experience /w3tcompact/icons/clever.gif I'm still trying to take in all this good advice but can't quite understand why I wouldn't want to put all my runs into a workbox, even an extra deep two gang. What is the advantage of the metal plaster ring? Is it because the coax terminations are so long?

I've checked out the Leviton website, it's very useful. I like the looks of their quickport products. Can I use these on a metal ring also? I'll be in Detroit later this week and plan a visit to Home Depot. Their on-line prices do seem good but we don't have a store nearby. Also planning a visit to one of their Expo design centers up there. Supposed to be very nice.

Thanks again to everyone for the great suggestions /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

rf33 · May 21, 2002

I personally would go with the boxes. The metal ring type I believe you are referring to do not hold the plate in place as well, and tend to be pretty hard to get lined up straight. If it the type I am thinking of (here they are called caddy-fasteners), they are really best for post construction stuff. Actually even for post construction work, you can use the plastic boxes with the "ears" which tighten against the back of the drywall.

PaulT · May 21, 2002

I used the decora style outlets/switches (1 rectangle, rather than 2 oval for outlets, large rectangular rockers rather than small toggles with slotted faceplate). Besides the fact that I like how they look, they are also the same format as the leviton modular wall system. They all use the same face plates, with different inserts. You can get compatible inserts for data, phone, video, audio speaker wires. You can get up to 8 inserts in a single gang box, but that would be more for small speaker wire. I have two data and one video terminated in each single gang box. It was tight, but fit OK. I ran two of these drops to each room, because you never know how the furniture will get arranged/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.

I don't think you need 2 video cables to each location in every room. The only reason to have 2 video cables is to backhaul a second video signal to a switch, while watching another one. If I wanted to backhaul a high def signal (like DVD), the cable won't do it without an expensive transceiver at the source to convert, say component out, or s-vhs out, to the RG6 media. Then you would need another transceiver at the other end to convert back again. Cheaper to buy a second, third, etc DVD player. At most I might have two cables to the main A/V center for this purpose. Why would you ever need to backhaul a signal from, say the guest room?

Also, now that I have my cat5 wiring in place, my brother leapfrogged me with wireless. It would be less expensive if you only have 2 or 3 pcs to use wireless. I would be using it if I didn't invest in the wireline technology/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif