Snow Blower Performance

   / Snow Blower Performance #21  
Update on earlier post.

Well, I got the impeller measured and there is more clearance than I thought there would be - aint it always the same when you buy used, the deal isn't as good later after calming down and doing some checking.

I get between 1/2" and 3/4" cleance on each blade - depending on which side you measure. I think the front gets worn more as the snow/grit or what have you takes it's toll. I guess I will try welding on some 1/4 x 1x2 flat bar to close up the gap. I guess static balancing for the fan would better better than nothing.
Anyone have an idea of cost uf building up and balancing if sent out? What about the cost of replacing the fan - how expensive are these?

I once repaired a 10hp gas powered blower and the impeller was something like $40 to replace - I know there is no comparison, but the price still seemed cheap to me. The old one got bent like a pretzel after jamming with rocks/ice !. My dear dog loves to play with stones and drops them anywhere - and I gets to find them :eek::eek:

Anyway, just thought I would add a bit to the first post. Also the fan is 24" diameter, so it should throw quite a bit out if set up right.

If anyone has some info that might be of help, I sure would appreciate hearing about it.

Thx

Jim
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #22  
check out this link. Snowblower Impeller Kit

Closes the clearance while still alowing some flexibility. looks like it will do what you're looking for and is easier than welding and building up the edge.
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #23  
check out this link. Snowblower Impeller Kit

Closes the clearance while still alowing some flexibility. looks like it will do what you're looking for and is easier than welding and building up the edge.

Thanks for the link. I took a look but that looks to be for the small gas powered snow blower of 10hp or less.
Hmmm, maybe that idea could be used and modified to take advantage of some PTFE board say 1/2 thick and somebacking plates. Cheap to do and nothing gets damaged with the PTFE being so slippery.

Thx

Jim
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #24  
Jim -- I think you could use the plastic as mentioned to create strips to go on each impeller blade and close the gap. I want to try it this summer as I am going to do an overhaul of my old blower and will use 1/ 4" UHMW material to do it. I plan to have slots in the material so I can adjust it to get minimum clearance between the fan and the housing. If worst comes to worst I will have some small holes in the end of my fan blades that could be welded closed if necessary:eek:
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #25  
Jim -- I think you could use the plastic as mentioned to create strips to go on each impeller blade and close the gap. I want to try it this summer as I am going to do an overhaul of my old blower and will use 1/ 4" UHMW material to do it. I plan to have slots in the material so I can adjust it to get minimum clearance between the fan and the housing. If worst comes to worst I will have some small holes in the end of my fan blades that could be welded closed if necessary:eek:

Seems, some minds do think alike although 3,000 miles away eh !!
The plastic would also be sacrificial and readily replaced in it wears quickly. Weight should be equal between the blades if the same number of bolts are used on each blade and same positions used for drilling (ie. a template made and used).

I figured a cheap domestic cutting board for about $8.00 would be fine to use when cut into trips. I am also cosidering placing it in the front of the blade so the blade itself would offer support to the plastic.

Thx for your comments - if ya have any more ideas, I would sure appreciate hearing about them.

The weather has really warmed up on the left coast. The 2ft - 3ft of snow I had is mostly gone with the current warm spell. It has been about 6C (42F) for about four or five days. At this rate if I manage to improve the blower, I might get to try it out next winter:eek::eek::eek:

Cheers

Jim
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #26  
Jim -- Lee Valley Tools has UHMW material in a variety of sizes that you can use. I do not think that any weight difference you would generate by doing this would amount to a problem. I seem to remember a kit like the one posted by Gerard for 3 pth blowers that was essentially what we are talking about-- probably not available anymore cause why would you buy it once you have the idea?
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #27  
Jim -- Lee Valley Tools has UHMW material in a variety of sizes that you can use. I do not think that any weight difference you would generate by doing this would amount to a problem. I seem to remember a kit like the one posted by Gerard for 3 pth blowers that was essentially what we are talking about-- probably not available anymore cause why would you buy it once you have the idea?


Thought you might be interested - I have just got a reply back from Allied-Farm King (Buhler) who made my new (used) snow blower (I am guessing that it is an ex-rental and probably 15years old or more, but well built and in good shape). They couldn't find the specs for my particular machine, but said that the clearance between blade tip and housing should be as small as possible/practucal.

Hmmmm, that mean I got lotsa "hole" to fill up :D:D:D That I can do without a problem.

Further to the plastic idea, depending on the wear experienced, it might be worth considering replacement blade tips in metal. Make a drawing and make them all the same (ie not rely on memory). After the experience with the plastic - I suspect they will wear rather quickly, replace with metal ones say 1/4" thick and made of stainless steel flat bar. No corrosion and would wear well and last the fan throughout it's usefull life I would think.

Just idle thoughts at the moment, but certainly something to consider.

Cheers

Jim
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #28  
Jim -- debated using metal and I think it would work as well. I don't think the plastic will wear very quickly due to its slippery surface and in theory the snow is not very abrasive (although the occasional rock and dirt clump probably is:eek::eek:). I do know that the blower used by the guys who do the driveways in my "in town" neighbourhood has about 1/8" to 1/4" clearance between the fan and the housing and they frequently throttle down to stop it from throwing too far.
I figure if the plastic does not last long then I can replace it with metal fairly easily since the holes and dimensions will be the same -- and I have the plastic:eek:.
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #29  
My neighbour has an allied blower, I have a Lucknow, both 7 ft'ers.

Mine will throw snow 50+ feet, his only about 20 ft max.

Mine has 1/2-3/4" gap on the impellor. His is only 1/4".

He breaks a lot of shear pins on rocks. Mine shoots a lot of rocks right through.

I think his fan is a slightly different design than mine, it cleans up much better. Mine leaves a big pile.
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #30  
My neighbour has an allied blower, I have a Lucknow, both 7 ft'ers.

Mine will throw snow 50+ feet, his only about 20 ft max.

Mine has 1/2-3/4" gap on the impellor. His is only 1/4".

He breaks a lot of shear pins on rocks. Mine shoots a lot of rocks right through.

I think his fan is a slightly different design than mine, it cleans up much better. Mine leaves a big pile.

When I went to look at the blower, the chap who sold it showed me how it performed by going through some 15" of snow. I also found out that the tractor he was using was only a 30 HP machine - I believe that was engine power too.
The blower cleaned up the snow with about an inch or so of the ground/grass. It threw the snow some 15ft - 20ft. I haven't yet used it - the snow is all but melted away where I am after nearly a week of 42F or thereabouts temps.

You say your machine has the 1/2 " - 3/4" between the impeller and casing and yet still manages to push the snow a long distance - hmmmmm! Maybe the gap is not as critical as the factory said it was. They did say with large gaps , 1/2 - 3/4 I consider pretty large, the performance would still be pretty adequate.

I will try some plastic blade tips and see what happens. The worst that can happen is I end up with three or four 5/16" dia bolt holes on each blade.

How do you like your blower? The one I have looks to be very well built and, has the enclosed gearbox, large #60 chain for auger drive and 25" dia. fan - which is normal with the 7' (85 ") model. think mine must be a hybrid and they used the parts left over from a production run.

Anyway, thanks for your comments.

Jim
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #31  
Jim- I haven't yet had any problems with my tractor-mounted blower, but on my old walk-behind, impeller clearance was the major issue affecting throwing distance (gravel driveway...:eek:) -- other than a slipping belt, of course. Mine got so bad it would only throw about 6 feet; finally replaced the impeller-- big difference! Rocks that I'd hit would bend over the blades enough to create a 3/8" to 5/8" gap. New impeller maxed at about 1/4".

Also, if I read the impeller kit info correctly, I think the kit has different sizes/numbers of plastic tips depending on your particular impeller. In any case, it sounds like it could be a good fix.
 

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   / Snow Blower Performance #32  
This is the exact problem I am having with my Ber Vac 60" blower. I have a 2.5 mile driveway/road and i suck up PLENTY of rocks. We have had a ton of snow amd I have put 60 hours on my tractor in the past two weeks. Almost all those hours have been spent in reverse blowing snow.
I have noticed that the performance of my blower has started to decline. After reading all these posts I went and looked at my fan blade clearance and it is a pretty large gap.

I also read on another thread ( that I can't seem to find now") that a gentleman did'nt extend the fan blades but he put a liner in the housing essentially closing the gap. He used some type of hard plastic and riveted it in. He said he got the same results as extending the blades and it worked very well. I sure wish I could find that post now..
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #33  
scesnick-- as you're probably going to have to remove the impeller one way or another... you might try what I did before I replaced the impeller altogether on my walk-behind:

With the impeller off, and you might have to heat the blades with a torch to do this, I was able to pound the blades back into their original shape/positions -- at least, pretty closely. It worked a couple of times, and made a big difference, until I finally gave up and replaced it--
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #34  
i used to work at a skating arena.I found a piece of white plastic off the boards and used that for around my blower impeller to take up the gap and shute.worked excellent,threw snow 70' feet out where before it only went 15 feet.now I use my new 78 ' normand snowblower
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #35  
I will add that I have to keep my blower fed with snow. It will not blow a thin skim of snow unless I am really moving. I suspect the gap has a large role in that.

I've used the blower for about 100 hours a winter for the last 5 years on gravel, previously the last owner used it about 200+ hours a winter on gravel since about 1985. It has had one overhaul of the bearings with the last owner and new bearings, chain and sprockets with me.

You say your machine has the 1/2 " - 3/4" between the impeller and casing and yet still manages to push the snow a long distance - hmmmmm! Maybe the gap is not as critical as the factory said it was. They did say with large gaps , 1/2 - 3/4 I consider pretty large, the performance would still be pretty adequate.

Jim
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #36  
I will add that I have to keep my blower fed with snow. It will not blow a thin skim of snow unless I am really moving. I suspect the gap has a large role in that.

I came across this thread and I know its long gone so apologies extended. Maybe its relevant now anyways to a few as the snow's upon us again. I find with my blowers that they do work much better when their throats are filled with snow. At that point, you have to tailor your speed to get the right results. Too fast you are pushing snow and it builds up first at the sides and then over the top if you really are going too fast. Best seems the speed that has the paddles of the blower making a throbbing noise as you go. Seems that when I hear that, then I know my blower is working efficiently. You can tell cause its blowing the snow the greatest distance and everything its being fed is being thrown out.

Now... on the snowblower performance. It appears from what people are saying that the luck now blowers blow well. I picked up an old Inland 3pt blower several years ago, against my better judgement having not researched it, but the guy who I bought the tractor from [ Simplicity 9523 23hp 2 cyl Diesel ] had the blower and my dad was like "heh, he has the blower right here he'll sell you, > JUST DO IT! " . Well, I did just do it. And with high hopes I might ad no lie. So we get our first snow some 4 years ago right? It's a heavy wet half melted pile of dung. I take my new/used tractor out, all excited you know. Try it out on this and the f*$&er us barely moving the snow out the chute!!! BOY, WAS I DISAPPOINTED! Even on the neighbors paved driveway across the street. I would set the blower down, engage the PTO, start backward and the blower would literally push the snow back in a sheet about 3 inches thick until the weight of the tractor was exceeded by the weight of the snow plate I was pushing, and then the tractor would just sit there and spin. LOL I can at least laugh about this now. fwiw

So I set about researching how to fix this. First was some proper snow. I thought, heh, it's the wet snow that's beating me here. So I try it out on powder snow a couple weeks later and I am getting like 7-15ft throw distance. That is the outside of the stream, not the inside. Rats! It's no lie that I went round and round with this thing making it work and I would like to have the hours back. I cleaned rust off everything. Especially the chute. That made little difference. Some not much still disappointing. I ended up doing my own Clarence's Impellor kit. I ended up putting pieces of sheet metal on the ends of the impellor blades. These were maybe .025" thick and maybe 2 inches long but as wide as the impellor blades. I quickly discovered that my impellor housing was NOT round but instead oblong! So in my particular case the bottom 90 degree area below the discharge chute itself is the widest point in the housing and it gets tight at the discharge. Now that being said, it was not tight anywhere before modification. It was more than 1/4" gap at the discharge and closer to 1/3" as I recall.

I set to doing the impellor kit which reduced the clearance at the bottom to maybe an 1/8th of an an inch and had my clearance at the discharge at like no clearance it was so close. LOL In fact, it was so close I had to cut the top of the housing because the area past the discharge actually had the tightest clearance of all. So much so my metal impellor extendors were hitting up there. So I made a front to back cut with the hand held grinder and then two cuts down the housing side towards the auger chain drive. Just enough to pry that area up out of the way of the impellor. I then stuck a piece of metal in there to hold the metal flap up. I used carriage bolts with the rounded tops on the impellor blade flat side to minimize drag there. fwiw

I also ended up striping the whole inner housing and impellor using an air driven wire wheel setup and painting the whole housing and impellor.

Results? Well, lets just say my throw distance went from about 13ft on the outside of the discharge stream with all the rust removed to about 17ft with everything painted to about 33ft at the very outside of the stream with the impellor kit. Unfortunately, in my particular situation this is shy of what I would like for throw distance as I'm situated in a nook with the outside from the house uphill into the woods and the house on the other side and its a big turn around area in there. So I have been doing a lot of thinking about designing an accelerator, chain driven jackshaft sort of affair, like someone else previously mentioned. But in truth, that is reasonably beyond my capabilities to do so. I seem limited by the 540rpm PTO speed and my tractor is not a dual speed PTO so this is a bit frustrating. I checked out formal PTO setups to speed up the output and $$$$ so that's a no go.

I ended up getting a 32" Ariens [ 1990's ST1032 ] walk behind snowblower, I'm in the process of doing an impellor kit on that, and putting on new belt and bearings. In the heavy lake effect snow event we had recently it saved my butt cause the garage collapsed on my snow removal equipment due to the depth and weight of snow we got overnight. [ uhgg ] So I ended up clearing everything we got which exceeded 8 ft in several days with the Ariens and I have to say the machine has impressed me. If you fill the snout with snow that 10hp Tecumseh throws it outta there and quite a distance too. For having about 1/4" clearance in the housing I was pretty happy with its performance. Can't wait to get the new bearing in her and see how she blows now. The housing is likewise wirewheel'd clean and painted with rustoleum rusty metal primer and rustoleum paint. It's now slick as slick with all the rust GONE. The housing clearance is as tight as I could get it. Which unfortunately, on that one is tighter at 180 degrees [ opposite ] the discharge chute. So once kitted, using thicker sheet metal this time bought from Tractor Supply. They sell it 3" wide by 32" long or so regular steel fwiw. I cut equal pieces, looked carefully where my holes needed to be on the impellor, cause there are supports underneath you don't want to compromise by drilling through, marked on piece of sheet metal bar stock, drilled small holes in it and then proceeded to use that as a jig to drill the others. The idea was to get them all identical so that if I ever have to replace I can use the same jig to make a replacement and the same mount holes. Anyways. Put them all in with phillips self tapping sheet metal screws into the impellor blades.

The Ariens was throwing snow I'd say a good 30ft without the impellor kit, with rust, and with worn out impellor bearing and auger bushings. fwiw. It's a gas engine and by nature of what it is, it spins faster than the 540 PTO and the impellor can be made to throw snow farther. That has been my experience with gas powered snowblowers. IMHO the 540PTO speed snowblowers are design limited in terms of throwing distance. Seems to me, the only way to make one throw further is to have a larger impellor to begin with which then would get the tip speed up.

It would be interesting to have a thread on which blowers are the best 540PTO speed blowers. Which is to say, which throw the furthest basically. I believe many today are made in montreal or quebec ca at RAD technologies. These seem to throw well but I'm not overly impressed with the weight of the units. fwiw

Sorry to run on here. I know there are some other guys out there suffering poor blow job performance. If only that could be fixed as easily!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #37  
On another note, it's an interesting idea to use a piece of plastic or sheet metal of the right thickness to fill in the area of the housing at the discharge. With my ariens for instance, the impellor is dead tite at the tite point 180 degrees opposite the discharge. That leaves me with about 1/8th inch clearance at the discharge area which I am not keen about. I could put in a piece of sheet metal from the bottom or so up to the discharge to tighten that up but the question would then be securing it. If you riveted it, you would have to countersink the holes so the impellor doesn't hit the rivet heads I would think. For that assembly to come loose in action would seem a calamity and you sure don't wanna deal with that when there's a big snow removal job in progress. Funny thing is that I have a piece of stainless steel sitting there I could use for exactly that but not thick enough to countersink drill etc... fwiw Guess I'll have to see how well she blows with the new bearings and belt once together again and go from there.

In other news, the ariens is down in pieces and we had 10 inches of powder snow last night. So I dragged out the Inland blower from the collapse zone, hooked her up and went to work. She blows pretty **** nice to be honest. One of my impellor extenders is bent a little from last winter so it ain't perfect but at 540 PTO speed it was sending the powder snow well off into the distance. I actually was having some fun using her so went on to blow 3 more driveways in the neighborhood. All paved and boy that setup works nice on a paved driveway if you have a place to put the snow. 5ft wide per pass. Mmmmm. It would be great if my situation was not unique with the uphill cubby turn-around I have to deal with.

I have to admit that lately, looking at the design of all snowblowers with the chutes coming out the top it seems to me counter-intuitive. Like? You are lifting the snow, then you are redirecting the snow somewhere else, then you are hoping to have good throw distance after having done all this. I am sure a few of you have seen those old blowers on the Ford gas tractors of old that were 3pt hitch type shaped like a V and you had an impellor at the back of the V and they designed it so the snow got thrown right out the side at just the right angle [ like 35 degrees or so angle ] to get maximum throw distance. True you did not have much control of the throw direction with that setup but the video's I have seen of the units in action on Youtube they seemed to throw the snow pretty far and well. But you could only throw it out one side. LOL I have seen other setups where there were closeoffs on the one side and another outlet high on the same side to throw the snow the other direction if that was your choice you close off the lower discharge and open the upper discharge. If you went with larger impellors you would likely be power limited on many CUTS because obviously a larger impellor would require more HP to spin especially in heavier snow.

It would seem someone could design jackshaft type unit that could be installed basically complete on most 3pt 540PTO speed snowblowers. Someone mentioned his dad designed a chain driven setup and the chains would snap in heavier snow. So there you have a design parameter. Design something that could be bypassed say with a sliding gear and you could go back to 540PTO speed as easy as that for heavier wet snow but when you want more GIT you go to the faster spin speed for powder snow which you can agree tends to be what you have most of the winter once it gets cold enough. Just saying. One can dream. I would think if it was priced reasonable just about every guy with this problem would buy one.
 
   / Snow Blower Performance #38  
There are all kinds of gearboxes around that could be used if there is enough room. Years ago some adventurous types would install a regular car or truck gearbox backwards in their drivelines to obtain an overdrive transmission in their vehicles. If there's enough room there's no reason why this wouldn't work on a snowblower. The direct gear (4th usually) would be just straight through and then each lower gear would speed things up. I suspect third would be plenty fast enough. I was thinking that maybe a transfer case driven backwards would do the same thing but most of them have around a 2.5 to one ratio. 540 x 2.5 = 1350 rpm would be a bit harry on the impeller I think. Another possibility would be to get a tractor with a two speed pto. A friend of mine would use the 750 pto speed on his tractor to blow snow and said that there was a definite improvement in distance.

I've had three snow blowers that I've worked on. The first was a $50 auction sale special. I don't know the brand but it was a six foot "v" type. I was a bit underpowered for that one and eventually gave up on it. The second one was an International double auger model 80 that was given to me. It was in pretty rough shape from being used to blow corn. I built a new impeller for it and fixed it all up and sold it to buy a John Deere model 59 to mount on my tractor.

Building a new impeller isn't hard. I started off with a 2' square piece of 3/8th's inch thick steel. That went to the machine shop to have a hole cut in the center and a Browning type hub welded into it. I then cut 4 pieces of 6" channel iron exactly the same length and welded them into the four corners. I measured everything pretty carefully and braced the back sides and tied the centers together too. I weighed all my welding rods and the bracings to try and keep the impeller balanced. I left a large enough hole in the center so that I could balance the impeller at a tire shop. I ended up welding on one ounce to balance the impeller. The best part is that it works and not bad either. I have no idea how well the original three paddle impeller worked as it was beyond repair. This snow blower had a 1000 rpm yoke on it and I just left it like that as you can always idle the tractor down to avoid overspeeding. (Ya right like that's going to happen)

The 59 has a loose impeller. The $250 yoke is worn and I suspect the shaft is too. On the IHC model 80 the impeller drive shaft was worn quite bad. I welded it up and then went to work with an angle grinder and a file. I measured carefully and the "new" impeller now runs true enough to blow snow. There's no wobble visible so that's good enough for me. I'll do the same with the John Deere. The impeller will have a Browning type hub welded into it and I'll weld up the shaft and get it back to where it's supposed to be and then we will figure out a different drive for the cross augers. I imagine I'll stick with the present u-joint type set up but it won't be a $250 one from John Deere.
 

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