Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Snow, driveways & tractors.

[Mahindra3510]

Quote: I'd like to be able to drive in the yard near the house for landscaping projects, etc, which is why I've figured on R4s.


Not all yards are equal, but if you keep a, shall we say manicured yard, that pretty much rules out the R1s.

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue">shall we say manicured yard </font>
Soft/wet ground or sharp turns with R1s can cause damage to any lawn. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[trlong]

Woody,

I understand the kind of conditions you face. Not a lot different on this side of the CT River. I probably don't have anywhere near the steep grade you're facing.

I had to do a little (and I mean little) research as to why I've been told NOT to use chains on the front tires. The short answer, from my dealer/mechanic, is that if you're running straight, you don't have a problem. However, as soon as you start to turn the wheel (4WD) if both front wheels dig in, neither can spin, you'll start getting "axle windup" (very technical term /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) and run the real risk of tearing up the front axle drive gears (clear as mud?).

My dealer said that there are dealers around who will sell, and/or bless, use of chains on the front in 4wd but they will not as they have re-built several front ends damaged by that practice and ended up with very unhappy customers who they could have saved the serious $'s of a rebuild.

I'm sure there are TBN'ers with much more sophisticated descrtiptions of what happens in the front drive if turning in 4wd and the inside wheel is not allowed to slip, to keep up with the revolutions of the outside wheel turning the larger radius turn,....or something like that.

Just my limited mechanical info. I'm looking for more detailed info on the front drive system so I can "see" what the actual mechanism is and how it would be effected.

Tom

 

[trlong]

jdgreg,

See response to Woody, above.

Tom

 

[jdgreg]

Tom, Got it! Makes sense now.

Let us know if you find more info.

Thanks!

 

[scott_vt]

Hi Woody,
I also plan the get front chains to help with steering/braking when we get ice.

I have been using my MF 1040 FWD the last few years to maintain my 800 ft driveway. My drive is also moderate to steep. Was talking to the farmer up the road from me and I mentioned that maybe front chains might make things better /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif He said absolutely not /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Most tractor manufactures suggest not using front chains. I have not researched his statement, but wouldnt go ahead with that unless I had more favorable info. Just my opinion.

scotty

 

[CTyler]

The wind up is between the front and rear wheels not between the front wheels themselves. This is because the tractor(mine anyway) has an open front diff. Having one front wheel slip releases the wind up between the front and rear.

As far as R4's go they work ok except on ice. I have a 600' drive that has a 5+ deg slope. Plowing up the drive is ok until there is 6+ inches of snow or its icey or glazed over. Then I'll just drive up and plow down the hill. If I had chains on the rear plowing up the drive would probably be cake in heavy snow.

 

[Woody_NH]

Tom (and others), I appreciate your concern for the health of my tractor.

The "axle windup" situation is the same issue that I have with my 4wd truck. The truck has both front and rear differentials but no "center" differential. (Center not meaning physical location but meaning acting as a front to rear differential). If I drive the truck on dry pavement in 2wd and take a turn, the front and rear differentials each compensate for difference in distance traveled between left and right side wheels. There is no connection between front and rear axels and all is fine.

If I shift to 4wd on dry pavement and take a turn, the rear wheels average distance traveled is less that the front wheels average distance traveled. With no center differential, the front drive shaft is locked to the rear drive shaft and something has to give. You can feel the drive line bind and then one wheel will chirp releasing the built up torque ("axle windup"). This is not good for the drive train hence the warning not to use 4wd on dry pavement. (My wife's Subaru AWD has a limited slip front to rear viscous coupling to solve the problem).

My truck as well as my tractor is designed to operate on gravel, for example, in 4wd. The necessary wheel slippage takes place with much less torque build-up. In my situation with hard snow/ice on top of gravel, and operating the tuck in 4wd with chains on all four, the necessary slip take place with about the same ease as with tires on dry gravel. Having lost control of the truck once with chains only on the rear (truck sideways on the steep drive wedged between a tree and a rock), I have used chains on all 4 wheels of the truck for many years in this situation.

I'll have to experiment with the tractor on snow/ice when the front chains arrive. You can pretty easily see if there is some slip. The last snow storm I was going down the steep section on packed show with the tractor in low gear, 2wd (had forgot to engage 4wd), with chains on the rear and let-up on the e-hydro peddle to stop. While the machine did stop, we did skid a few feet.
Woody

 

[daTeacha]

So with no center differential, the tractor has what, 2 driveshafts coming off the same gear and the front can be disengaged? My little Kubota has a lever to engage or disengage 4wd, plus a pedal to lock the differential. My old IH Scout (1st generation, 304 CID, manual box, get out and turn 'em Warn hubs, lift off doors, roof, etc.) had a center diff that could be locked in severe conditions. How many of these tractors don't have center diffs? I think that's something I'd like to have if its available on some brands/models.

 

[bugstruck]

We're suppose to get allot of ice here tomorrow. The Bota with the R4's will be stationary. The little JD 325 2wd with the chains will handle it fine. Less weight actually helps in my situtation. My drive is over 15 degrees of slope at the steepest and never under 10 until the top. The R4's go fine in normal snow on those slopes with a little slippage. In ice it would be an instant accident without chains. I could chain it up, but I'd only seriously consider it with all corners chained. Not worth the hassle when I have a backup ready to go. Chains make an incredible difference in the real slick stuff. The Bota wouldn't even sit still on my drive in real ice.