Snowblower size recommendation

[dnw64]

I am looking into getting a tractor primarily to blow snow for my personal driveway, roughly 5000SF total.

At this point I am considering a TYM 254HST, which is a 24HP diesel with a 17.4 PTO-HP rating.

I've looked all over the web, forums, mfr websites, and YouTube videos and have not come to any great conclusion.

Pronovost says that any of their Lynx models, up to 70" require 16 - 25 PTO-HP.

Woodmaxx says their 60" model requires 18 - 30 HP, and 25 - 60 HP on their 72".

Based on the physical dimensions of the tractor (46" overall width), The absolute minimum would be 54", to give me 4" on each side of the tires. That's what I have on my current Case 444 with 48" blower and that is a minimum. 60" would be a more comfortable margin.

However, several posts I've read have indicated (and it seems logical to me) that the width doesn't really matter too much, being that what your're doing is throwing snow. It takes X force to move Y pounds Z feet. So if you have a wider blower you just slow down compared to a narrower one (there may be higher friction losses in a wider one, but if it's the same model/construction it doesn't seem like that would be measurable).

The primary reason then, that I would consider a 64 - 70" blower is to maximize efficiency. Every time you have to stop/start and/or turn around is non-productive time. So a wider blower would reduce the number of times that happens. Also, with small amounts of snow the fan housing will be full at a lower ground speeds, maximizing throw distance without having to feel like you're going to the races.

The above is all theoretical, of course, or I wouldn't be asking.

Additionally, it seems logical to assume that some blower designs are more efficient than others. My biggest concern regarding performance is distance, as I have a 40' wide parking area that needs to be all blown to one side. I'd really rather blow clean past than have to re-blow when I get near the end.

Any real world experience/recommendations?

 

[Fallon]

I advocate going wide in flail mowers. Not sure I would on a blower though. You have to push the blower into the snow & to some degree push snow in front of the blower.

I had a 60-62" blower behind my 60" track 25pto HP L3200. Worked well most of the time. Trying to push the blower into packed 3' drifts was very challenging. Lack of traction combined with the blower putting a hurt on available HP. Pushing a bigger wider blower into those piles would be noticeably harder. It would be really hard without a HST.

Personally I wouldn't go to much wider than your track. A few inches wider makes for easier maneuverability. Going to much wider will make it a bit more challenging depending on your conditions. Not impossible at all but challenging.

 

[KWentling]

I wouldn't go more than a 60". 54" on my 19 PTO HP Kubota is about right. It can be a pretty good load in deep snow.

 

[CobyRupert]

If you're pushing snow with your blower you're going too fast.
Is your tractor hydrostatic? If so, I'd go big and not worry about it, you can always slow down for big storms.
If someone says you need "x" horsepower per foot width, ask them "At what speed?" and "At what depth of snow?" (also how heavy is the snow?)
Horsepower is a measure of speed, not work.

And if you still believe you need "x" hp/ft, for a (say) 18" storm, then it's overkill for the other 95% of the storms.
As long as you can slow down, you'll get it done.

 

[FatTire]

There is no right or wrong on this one, but if 54" give you 6" of overhang, I'd be happy with that. Coby, maybe the thing is if you're pushing A LOT of snow you are going too fast? I mean aren't you always pushing some snow? Any time I stop and back up a blower, there is always some pile left there, that's the amount I was pushing. Or no?

Probably I should make clear that I pretty much swing to the extra HP side, I don't care that much about the little storms (why not just plow those?) but I want to be able to handle the big ones with relative ease.

 

[leonz]

Lots of things to examine here.

First is your money and how much you can afford to spend to accomplish fighting with the winter beast and avoiding junk at all costs. It may be better to look at the overall picture and what you will be doing with your mule the year round.

In saying that though, you should understand that a front end loader will add to the value of the mule at trade or in a sale as they are harder to sell outright without a loader and aid you in removing snow the blower cannot clear

How much wind you have to deal with and whether you plan on clearing snow at all hours. The wind is a big factor as you may want a chute extension to keep the snow up and away from you as you clear it.


More than a handful of the members have smaller diesel 4 wheel drive mules and use rear wider blowers and go slower on the first pass and take smaller cuts on the second pass to go faster when clearing. They have chains and loaded tires.


YOU have to have traction( chains) and adhesion(liquid ballast) adhesion to make the rear or front snow caster work well in deep snow.

Rear chains and loaded tires are a must have to clear heavy wet snows unless you have flat land to deal with but loaded tires are a plus.

The other issue is whether you want turf or R4 tires and 2 or four link chains and whetehr you want V bar chains or standard ladder chains AND OR if you are worried about the asphalt. Do not forget its going to bleach out anyway so scuffing it with chains is a no issue if you coat it. I do not bother with coating mine as the sun bleaches it right out.

When you get into five blade impellers you are looking at 40+ horsepower for the mule and if your going that high a heated cab
is a good idea as you have work lights, windshield wipers and a heater and or canned air.

My dads neighbor in the old neighborhood had a Kubota BX 2350 with a Kubota front mount snow caster with a hard cab and a full size Kubota heater plumbed into the radiator cooling system with a defroster diverter in the heater and and she loved it.
She could work clearing snow with no need for a coat while working. She did not have loaded tires or chains but she had a driveway and parking area that was easy to clean anyway.

Rear mount snow casters are so much easier to deal with and maintain than front mounts as they do not need an underframe and a reversing gearbox or roller chain set up.

You also have to remember that front mounts are smaller than rear mounts in the scheme of things where the cross auger housing
is smaller and deep snows will ride over the housing and you will have to back up to clear it again.

Depending on the brand the rear cross auger housing may be enclosed or open and permit more snow to enter at one time.

Both the front mounts and the rear mounts suffer from the same problem the open auger design is counter productive and will push snow pack away from the impeller if it is wet and dense enough and clean up at the end of one pass requires more work
to clean up the pile in front of it.

Lining the cross auger housing and the impeller housing with slick sheet material helps in keeping the impeller full but operating at a slow speed throws the snow the farthest distance.

You should also look at the two brands that have the rotating impeller drum that bypasses the the chute and spout and throws the snow to the left or right with high force as it bypasses the chute and spout(pronovost and lynx?). You need a wide open area to the left or right to take full advantage of an option like that as it will throw a full stream of snow while you are clearing.

You have a lot to examine before you buy and do not hesitate to walk away from a dealers showroom without a purchase.
A serious "good" dealers reputation is what is going to make you spend money or walk away. Implements and attachments are a side sale issue for most of them with the sub compact market as the prices just keep climbing and they keep offering sale prices with a huge down payment(for me anyway).

Shop around ask questions of local farmers as to who they deal with and whether they can be depended on for parts and warranty service and do not hesitate to wander a hundred miles or so to inquire about prices and snow blower brands like Pronovost, lorenz or Loftness.

The heavier the the snow caster the stronger the build so keep that in mind too.

 

[dnw64]

Personally I wouldn't go to much wider than your track. A few inches wider makes for easier maneuverability.

The other reason is that we have a paved driveway which is just a bit higher than the adjacent lawn. If I can keep the wheels on the pavement and yet clear a few inches past the edge of the pavement the opening is much more maintainable. The pavement is only just 10' wide, so as the winter goes on and ice along the edges build up, it tends to get narrower.

I wouldn't go more than a 60". 54" on my 19 PTO HP Kubota is about right. It can be a pretty good load in deep snow.

Good data point, thanks.

Is your tractor hydrostatic? If so, I'd go big and not worry about it, you can always slow down for big storms.

I don't have one yet, still looking. But Hydrostatic is near the top of the Needs List for exactly that reason. My old Case 444 is HST and the only reason it was ever close to bearable to blow snow (14HP, 48" blower).

Probably I should make clear that I pretty much swing to the extra HP side, I don't care that much about the little storms (why not just plow those?) but I want to be able to handle the big ones with relative ease.

I would prefer to err on the high side. Give me 30-35HP and I'd be thrilled. But it needs to be in a small enough factor to be maneuverable AND fit in my garage. I don't want to plow, my property is not well laid out for it or I'd just buy a plow truck.

First is your money and how much you can afford to spend to accomplish fighting with the winter beast and avoiding junk at all costs. It may be better to look at the overall picture and what you will be doing with your mule the year round.

Part of my problem is that I don't really have a "budget". It's more a matter of just being able to justify to myself what is "worth it". At this point I don't see using the tractor for anything else. I hate mowing, so I hire someone to do that, the drive is paved so no maintenance there. We only have 2 acres, of which most is house/yard/garage etc, so no forestry, etc. OTOH, one of the reasons I'm considering a SCUT is that with a Class 1 3PH and PTO there are a multitude of relatively inexpensive options for attachments, as opposed to a proprietary system like Steiner/Ventrac or PowerTrac.

In saying that though, you should understand that a front end loader will add to the value of the mule at trade or in a sale as they are harder to sell outright without a loader and aid you in removing snow the blower cannot clear.

Yes, I have come to realize that. I wasn't originally looking for a loader, and while I expect to rarely use it in snow clearing, I can see that some storms/winter is could be valuable. Also, while I hope to pick a combination that will take me through my Golden Years, I realize that I made decide after one winter or five that something else will suit me better. Or we'll move and have entirely different needs.

Rear chains and loaded tires are a must have to clear heavy wet snows unless you have flat land to deal with but loaded tires are a plus.

The other issue is whether you want turf or R4 tires and 2 or four link chains and whetehr you want V bar chains or standard ladder chains AND OR if you are worried about the asphalt.

I will probably try going without chains to begin with. Our entire drive is almost dead flat, and I have been 95% successful with my 2WD Case, no ballast at all, with basic ladder chains. So I am thinking that 4WD should manage in all but the most extreme situations, which happen rarely. We do use salt and get back to clear pavement after most storms. There have been a few rare cases where we have an inch or two of packed snow for a few weeks.

You should also look at the two brands that have the rotating impeller drum that bypasses the the chute...

I just today (think) I figured out how those work. It's because I was reading an article about impeller tip extensions and was thinking that for the ultimate in clearance the impeller should actually be attached to the housing which would spin and have holes in it... Oh, that must be what a "rotating drum" design is... d'oh!

...do not hesitate to walk away from a dealers showroom without a purchase.

Well I have the advantage of the experiences of this winter prompting me to do something for next winter, and winter isn't even over yet, so I do have some time

The heavier the the snow caster the stronger the build so keep that in mind too.

I've heard a lot of good things on the forum about Pronovost, but there are two major differences between the Lynx and the Woodmaxx:
The Pronovost Lynx 62" weighs 339#, the Woodmaxx 60" weighs 695#. More than twice as much?!!
The Pronovost has a welded cutting edge, the Woodmaxx has a bolt-on replaceable one*.

Appreciate all the feedback

*Since I have a paved drive and like to keep it clean, I don't use skid shoes and the cutting edge does wear, so this is a definite consideration for me. I have torches and a MIG as well as TIG welder but would rather not have to use them if unnecessary.

 

[leonz]

The Lynx models are the economy side of the Pronovost units if I remember correctly.

The first five Pronovost models run from 550 pounds to 808 pounds in weight.
The basic TRC800 with the rotating drum is designed to be used for mules with 25 to 50 horsepower
so you can manage that as long as you can lift it with the mule you buy.

If you invest in a loader you can use one of the loader circuits to power the drum rotation function
but that would prevent you from using the loader while you have the snow blower functions connected.
Another option would be to use a diverter valve from Pronovost that they will provide you if desired.

 

[RickB]

I just had to blow 30" of snow with a 74" blower run by 42 PTO HP from a gear drive tractor with a slow reverse speed of 1.4 MPH at PTO speed. It was more than the tractor wanted taking the first full pass. I have used this combination successfully for severally years in mostly lesser accumulations. A hydrostatic transmission would be helpful, but won't be happening.

 

[RjCorazza]

i agree that hp is over rated when discussing snow blowers, particularly with HST machines. I would size it just over the tractor width.
You mention golden years, so I will add my two cents... I didn't get a cab tractor 13 years ago because the brand I wanted started with factory cabs on one model higher than I decided upon. After years of freezing I wish that I had gotten the cabbed tractor then. I recently traded it in for a larger cabbed Kubota and couldn't be happier (and warmer).

 

[RickB]

My 'golden years' will be spent in a place where snow blowers aren't needed.

 

[dnw64]

I just had to blow 30" of snow with a 74" blower run by 42 PTO HP from a gear drive tractor...

Wow, 30" in one pass is a real job!

If I were expecting any more than 12-15" I would plan on multiple passes during the storm, so theoretically, 15" of snow on a 74" blower with 21 PTO-HP would be the equivalent. 1.4 MPH sounds slow at first blush, but that's 2 feet per second, and a reasonable snowblowing speed IMO. And then again, the number of times I will need to blow even 15" at a time probably averages once a year or even less.

I appreciate the data point.

 

[dnw64]

You mention golden years, so I will add my two cents... I didn't get a cab tractor 13 years ago because the brand I wanted started with factory cabs on one model higher than I decided upon. After years of freezing I wish that I had gotten the cabbed tractor then. I recently traded it in for a larger cabbed Kubota and couldn't be happier (and warmer).

I will definitely want a cab, but the vast majority of factory cabbed tractors are simply to big to fit in my garage, and there is no way I'm parking outside or building a new place for it.

I will probably just do a universal fit soft cab like a Bercomat etc. While heat would be "nice", the biggest thing for me is to get out of the wind/snow. With a decent setup I will generally only be out a half hour or so, and I can dress warmly enough for that pretty easily. Then again, once I make the first step, maybe I will get too spoiled and want more... Time will tell.

 

[RickB]

Wow, 30" in one pass is a real job!

If I were expecting any more than 12-15" I would plan on multiple passes during the storm, so theoretically, 15" of snow on a 74" blower with 21 PTO-HP would be the equivalent. 1.4 MPH sounds slow at first blush, but that's 2 feet per second, and a reasonable snowblowing speed IMO. And then again, the number of times I will need to blow even 15" at a time probably averages once a year or even less.

I appreciate the data point.

Had I not been 700 miles from home during the storm, I certainly would have been at it during the event.
Sometimes life gets in the way.

 

[RjCorazza]

I will definitely want a cab, but the vast majority of factory cabbed tractors are simply to big to fit in my garage, and there is no way I'm parking outside or building a new place for it.

I will probably just do a universal fit soft cab like a Bercomat etc. While heat would be "nice", the biggest thing for me is to get out of the wind/snow. With a decent setup I will generally only be out a half hour or so, and I can dress warmly enough for that pretty easily. Then again, once I make the first step, maybe I will get too spoiled and want more... Time will tell.

My L4060 cabbed tractor fits in my residential garage. I do have to use the manual release on the electric opener to open the door to full height. I would agree that staying dry is most of the battle, particularly with snow blowing.

 

[dnw64]

According to TractorData, the L4060 Cab is 91.1 inches tall*. You may have a residential garage, but it's supersized. Typical residential garage doors are 7' tall. Mine has about 82-1/2" clear opening at the jamb.

*Presumably with R1 tires, may be a couple inches shorter with R3/4.

 

[RoyJackson]

I'd go no wider then a 60" snow blower on a 17.4 PTO HP tractor. If the snow is the light powdery stuff, snow blowing is pretty easy. Biggest problem with the powdery stuff is visibility since, even with the chute pointed with the wind, you can be blinded.
A wet snow is heavy...won't throw as far and it'll bog the tractor.
Then there's the matter of frozen snow (melt and refreeze) which is something we'll see this week with temperatures in the upper thirties and low forties. I have about 45 or so PTO HP (72" snow blower) and frozen snow is tough until you break through the crust...even with the PTO HP I have, it's slow going and stopping until the engine catches up (from bogging).
The bigger the blower, the more power it consumes...and, unless you want to go really slow and have to stop when the engine bogs (and it will)...well, even with a 60" blower, you'll experience this. With a wider blower, you'll experience it more frequently.

 

[leonz]

Hello Dnw64,

Just so you know you can purchase a Curtiss hard cab for the BX Kubota or Series 1 John Deere Mules and they will fit under most garage doors with the rops folded down so that is not much of an issue.

Whether its in the garage or not the mule wont care but if its in the garage your going to want to have heat in the garage to melt the ice and snow off the mule and the cab UNESS you have a space heater to melt everything and warm up the transmission and engine(something I do as a matter of practice as I keep my mule outdoors as the exhaust fumes get in the house.

I just roll the salamander space heater out and melt all the ice and and snow off it and heat up the transmission and engine as the air cooled engine I have does not have a block heater.

Its is something your going to want to do as a matter of maintenance as any snow in the impeller drum and refreeze and cause you many problems. melting off the ice and snow prevents all this either before or after use.


NOW chains are really a must have if you do not have liquid ballast in the tires as you can and will have situations where your mules tires will do nothing but spin on ice and just sit there.

If your budget is not an issue and you want a mule for snow removal a BX or series 1 JD model 2023 or 2025 with a Curtis cab with a heater will be more than adequate.

if you do not require the use of a loader and bucket you can invest in a hard cab and heater and a second snow caster either on the front or rear Municipalities to do this and several of the members has two snow casters on their mules so its an either or situation.

A set of chains mounted on the rear tires that do not have ballast in them will pay you many dividends in piece of mind.

As I said a four wheel drive mule will get stuck and really stuck simply because they are heavy and with no chains or a loader it will be a PIA to get out of the stuck position.

Its always a case of invest in the parts and equipment early and invest well and you do not have to spend money later.

 

[dnw64]

Thanks for all the input.

I've looked at (physically and virtually) a lot of tractors, but there are very few out there with cabs on them already. A Curtis Cab currently runs at minimum $4000 (without heat OR ac), so adding one to a used tractor really skyrockets the price. I decided I needed to find a tractor with cab on it already so that they would both be depreciated (and I think the accessories depreciate faster than the tractor).

So tonight I purchased a 2006 Massey Ferguson GC2300 with 600 hours, 50" front snowblower and Curtis cab for $6200. Needs a little TLC, but mostly cosmetic. The only obvious mechanical was that the Diff Lock did not return to Off without a bit of finagling. I'm guessing it just needs a new return spring.

It also came with a set of chains, didn't check the tires for liquid. If it's there, fine, but it not I will probably run it just with the chains unless/until I find that's not enough. My 210# is not an insignificant addition... Since it does have a 3pt I may make a simple weight box for that. One advantage to the MF front blower system (same as the Kubota AFAIK) is that it does have down pressure if you want it. So if you need extra traction on the chained up rear tires you can give it to them. I've used this concept often on my old 2WD Case 444...

I don't have any intentions of pursuing it right at this time, but this tractor actually have a bit more PTO-HP than the TYM that I was initially asking about, so I could also consider a rear mount blower. If nothing else, I would find out how I like operating one. Would probably want to upgrade the back window to glass and add a wiper though...

 

[DHD]

dnw64

Sounds like you made an excellent choice.
It's good to see you've got a cab and chains.
I like my unheated Curtis cab and I think you'll find a heater is not required.
With chains, I don't believe you'll have any traction problems, as long as you have sufficient weight on you're 3 point hitch.