Snow Equipment Buying/Pricing Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway

   / Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway #11  
I would be looking at a used plow pick-up and spend the money on very good chains. Plow in comfort and at a higher speed, and have a truck for summer use. Maybe even have separate wheels/tires during summer instead of the hassle of installing them. Good write-up:

Snow Plowing For Newbies - Sustainable Preparedness
 
   / Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway #12  
wow, I think you have significant challenge. Since most of the mountain areas in WA state often get a primarily wet snow (like this year) And your driveway is dirt, ice will likely be a perennial issue. My drive is little over 1/2 mile plus side drives etc and i use a 35 pto hp tractor with a 74 inch pull blower. were i to do it all over i would try to have 50-60 pto hp so my travel, particularly uphill would be faster. My max slope is your average so you will see even greater speed loss to gravity. I can blow at about 7mph downhill, 4-5 uphill for a six inch snow if its not too wet. I actually decommissioned a section of dirt drive that had a section of circa 20% after taking a ride down it accelerating in 4wd, blower and blade down with all 4 having v grip chains. I agree with the others that dealing with the ice will be the largest safety issue. Some type of sander/cinder applicator will likely be necessary. Asking your plow guy what works and doesn't is a good place to start. if you have the room i would try to make "guardrails" with the early season snow to help keep a vehicle from going off.

It sounds like you have been there some time, No issues to date?
Thats a heck of a hill 700 ft gain in your part alone.





I'm in the mountains/foothills of WA with a 1-mile dirt/gravel driveway that is seriously steep (13% average, 21% maximum), plus another half mile that I share with neighbors. The driveway is narrow and curvy, and is cut across a steep hill so the edge drops off. We get about 100 of snow per year. Our plow guy has trouble with the volume some years (like this year), so I'm thinking about getting a tractor with a blower to take care of it myself. This would have the additional benefit of avoiding the plow piles that keep the driveway muddy in the spring after the rest of the snow has melted off. I don't want to be craning my neck for 2 miles every time it snows, so it's going to need to be a front blower. And, unless someone wants to talk me out of it, hydrostatic transmission and a cab. I have JD and Mahindra dealers an hour away, and Kubota, Kioti, New Holland, MF, and Bobcat dealers 2 hours away. At this point, I'm mostly looking at Kubota and Kioti.

My main question is around horsepower and ground speed. I don't want to spend more than an hour on a normal 6" snowfall, which means I normally need to be moving 2 mph at a minimum, hopefully at least 3 mph. Many people seem happy with the B2650, and people talk up the Kubota blowers a lot, but based on YouTube videos I've seen they are often moving fairly slow when blowing (perhaps close to 2 mph). If I buy a Kioti, I'm looking towards a 50+ hp DK. Will double the power that translate to being able to move twice as quickly when blowing? Kioti's literature on their DK-compatible blower recommends 25-40 PTO hp. Will it actually be able to effectively use all 40 hp, or does the snowblower design lead to declining ROI with each additional hp? What if I put it on a DK6010SE (which has 45 PTO hp)?

Reliability is a high priority--my driveway is trailer-unfriendly, and with the distance to the dealer it would become quite a headache. Being stranded in the winter would be especially unfortunate. Other than blowing speed and reliability, there are some additional priorities. In the winter, a heavier tractor would do better at breaking up driveway ice (I would have chains, of course), and would be more effective at pulling a stuck vehicle (which I hope won't happen, but good to be prepared). In the summer, my only regular use would be driveway maintenance, but there are lots of projects where I'd love to have a tractor with a FEL to move heavy things around (including when we build a new house to replace our cabin).

For winter maintenance of a steep, high-consequence driveway, what else should I be thinking about? From what I'm reading in threads, a rear blade to get more snow off the driveway (and reduce ice build-up) is a must. Is a salt/sand spreader effective, and if so, how much sand should I be spreading on a 1-mile driveway when I think things are going to get icy? Is there a better way to add traction to an icy surface (or avoid the ice altogether)?
 
   / Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway
  • Thread Starter
#13  
I really appreciate the insights and advice, folks. There are a lot of questions, so I'll try to cover them in groups instead of individually. I'm also attaching some photos of the driveway. We had a Cat 930K come yesterday to deal with our plow piles, and a sand truck came today. Two of the photos are before the Cat came, one photo is after the Cat but before the sand, and one is with the sand down.

I wouldn't necessarily call 6" a normal snowfall--sometimes it's sometimes 1" or 2", sometimes 8", sometimes in between. It's not often much more than 6", and it would be very rare (less than once per winter) to get more than 16" in a day. We're on the east side of the mountains, so the snow is usually dry. I used 6" as the guideline because it's usually less than that, and the handful of times per year it's more than 6" I'm not averse to spending extra time blowing at a slower speed (as opposed to spending a lot of money on a monster tractor that can blow any amount of snow at 3 mph). Snow drifts are uncommon. We've had the property three years--the past two winters have been mild, and this winter is closer to normal. This winter is the first time we've had a problem with ice buildup. In previous winters the driving surface was usually snow, but good snow tires were always sufficient (blizzaks on the car, hakkas on the truck). Sunny days and ground heat would reduce the mass, and cold clear nights would cause frost growth on the surface.

Our plow driver had a V-plow and got stuck with some frequency (taking an hour+ to get unstuck). His equipment (truck, tires, chains) weren't the best, but he was experienced. He quit on us this weekend after getting stuck badly and missing other clients (I don't blame him, an unfortunate situation); we'll see how the next plow driver does. No matter how good the plow driver is, on high-volume winters the piles will eventually require machinery. I don't want to go through the learning curve of plowing on a high-consequence driveway, I don't want to deal with plow piles during the winter, some places (especially around the house) don't have good places to put piles, I don't like the extra driveway mud from plow piles in the spring melt, and I want the flexibility to leave the big snowfalls to blow in one pass instead of waking up in the middle of the night to do an intermediate pass. For all those reasons, I want to blow instead of plow. And perhaps silly, but I prefer the aesthetics of a blown driveway compared to plow piles. Captain Dirty, your point about keeping a plow contractor while I learn the ropes is well-taken. The sand today was delivered today at a good price and without fuss, so maybe that's the last job I'd try to take on myself.

We have ~100 acres, but almost entirely steeply hilled. I have no desire to farm or otherwise touch most of it. Around the house we have a few acres to landscape/etc, but I can manage that mowing with my BCS. The tractor is primarily for winter snow removal, and the only summer activities are moving heavy things with the loader, and maintaining the driveway (box blade, land plane, or similar). I certainly have no high-horsepower requirements in the summer. If it weren't for the snow removal, I'd probably buy an old lower-hp open-station tractor with a decent loader for the summer tasks.

The advice here seems to be to definitely aim higher than the Kubota B/Kioti CK series. There are a few youtubers with extensive collections of front-blower videos. In particular, Mark Holbrook's channel has a lot of videos with a front blower on a Kubota L4760 in Idaho, which should be fairly similar to my climate (albeit with more drifts). He seems to move at a decent pace when blowing 6", and so I'm using that setup as a benchmark in my head. Based on that benchmark, is upgrading the hp to the L6060 going to come with a noticeable increase in blowing pace? (sounds like going with the high HP is a good idea) And is switching from Kubota L to Kioti DK without changing the HP or blower width going to have similar performance? (not sure)

Leonz, your recommendation to use a row crop tractor while rear facing is definitely interesting. I had seen that such tractors exist, but assumed they were so astronomically expensive that it wouldn't make sense given the lack of summer use. I would appreciate the rear steer so that the wheels more closely follow the path of the blower. In addition to the cost, I'd be worried about the ease of operation/maintenance of a used tractor engineered for large farms compared to a Kubota Grand L built with less experienced owners in mind.

fishhead, your story about sliding on a 20% slope with v-bar chains on all four tires certainly got my attention. Were those cross-link chains or a web/net-style like Aquiline Talon or Trygg SMT? How heavy was that tractor?


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   / Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway #14  
From what you describe, you could get by with a 40-50hp open station with a Rear Pull Snowblower.
As you describe your plow truck guy getting stuck, a Kubota L6060 hydro with a cab sounds perfect.
Either with R1 tires and excellent chains.

You will end up using it way more than you think. Beautiful area BTW
 
   / Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway #15  
After looking at the pics, a 60 HP with mid PTO for a front blower. Cab and chained up. I have a 1/4 mile drive much like yours. Be careful. Speed is not your friend with steep slopes.
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   / Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway #16  
Wow.....a steep drive like that with no edge markers? That's just nuts.
 
   / Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway #17  
Where's your sense of adventure? Seriously, this is no place for errors.
 
   / Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway #18  
My preference for that situation would be a front mount 78" or 84" snowblower with a rear blade for scraping. 50 hp or more at the PTO and net style chains. Hydrostatic would shorten the learning curve.

Rear pull blowers are great when your situation allows for.it, but looks like yours is more serious.
 
   / Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway #19  
I really appreciate the insights and advice, folks. There are a lot of questions, so I'll try to cover them in groups instead of individually. I'm also attaching some photos of the driveway. We had a Cat 930K come yesterday to deal with our plow piles, and a sand truck came today. Two of the photos are before the Cat came, one photo is after the Cat but before the sand, and one is with the sand down.

I wouldn't necessarily call 6" a normal snowfall--sometimes it's sometimes 1" or 2", sometimes 8", sometimes in between. It's not often much more than 6", and it would be very rare (less than once per winter) to get more than 16" in a day. We're on the east side of the mountains, so the snow is usually dry. I used 6" as the guideline because it's usually less than that, and the handful of times per year it's more than 6" I'm not averse to spending extra time blowing at a slower speed (as opposed to spending a lot of money on a monster tractor that can blow any amount of snow at 3 mph). Snow drifts are uncommon. We've had the property three years--the past two winters have been mild, and this winter is closer to normal. This winter is the first time we've had a problem with ice buildup. In previous winters the driving surface was usually snow, but good snow tires were always sufficient (blizzaks on the car, hakkas on the truck). Sunny days and ground heat would reduce the mass, and cold clear nights would cause frost growth on the surface.

Our plow driver had a V-plow and got stuck with some frequency (taking an hour+ to get unstuck). His equipment (truck, tires, chains) weren't the best, but he was experienced. He quit on us this weekend after getting stuck badly and missing other clients (I don't blame him, an unfortunate situation); we'll see how the next plow driver does. No matter how good the plow driver is, on high-volume winters the piles will eventually require machinery. I don't want to go through the learning curve of plowing on a high-consequence driveway, I don't want to deal with plow piles during the winter, some places (especially around the house) don't have good places to put piles, I don't like the extra driveway mud from plow piles in the spring melt, and I want the flexibility to leave the big snowfalls to blow in one pass instead of waking up in the middle of the night to do an intermediate pass. For all those reasons, I want to blow instead of plow. And perhaps silly, but I prefer the aesthetics of a blown driveway compared to plow piles. Captain Dirty, your point about keeping a plow contractor while I learn the ropes is well-taken. The sand today was delivered today at a good price and without fuss, so maybe that's the last job I'd try to take on myself.

We have ~100 acres, but almost entirely steeply hilled. I have no desire to farm or otherwise touch most of it. Around the house we have a few acres to landscape/etc, but I can manage that mowing with my BCS. The tractor is primarily for winter snow removal, and the only summer activities are moving heavy things with the loader, and maintaining the driveway (box blade, land plane, or similar). I certainly have no high-horsepower requirements in the summer. If it weren't for the snow removal, I'd probably buy an old lower-hp open-station tractor with a decent loader for the summer tasks.

The advice here seems to be to definitely aim higher than the Kubota B/Kioti CK series. There are a few youtubers with extensive collections of front-blower videos. In particular, Mark Holbrook's channel has a lot of videos with a front blower on a Kubota L4760 in Idaho, which should be fairly similar to my climate (albeit with more drifts). He seems to move at a decent pace when blowing 6", and so I'm using that setup as a benchmark in my head. Based on that benchmark, is upgrading the hp to the L6060 going to come with a noticeable increase in blowing pace? (sounds like going with the high HP is a good idea) And is switching from Kubota L to Kioti DK without changing the HP or blower width going to have similar performance? (not sure)

Leonz, your recommendation to use a row crop tractor while rear facing is definitely interesting. I had seen that such tractors exist, but assumed they were so astronomically expensive that it wouldn't make sense given the lack of summer use. I would appreciate the rear steer so that the wheels more closely follow the path of the blower. In addition to the cost, I'd be worried about the ease of operation/maintenance of a used tractor engineered for large farms compared to a Kubota Grand L built with less experienced owners in mind.

fishhead, your story about sliding on a 20% slope with v-bar chains on all four tires certainly got my attention. Were those cross-link chains or a web/net-style like Aquiline Talon or Trygg SMT? How heavy was that tractor?


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Hello MarkFromWa,

Seeing the new pictures of your private road that you were so kind to upload reminds me of the Great Northern Railroads old rail lines near Wenatchee and Skykomish.
We have a number of members on the forum that use wider snow blowers on smaller mules with loaded tires and rear mounts that take the first pass slowly and then take half cuts to finish their driveways or private roads.

I am not trying to spend your money but the both the B series and L series are too small for your needs.

But you need both stability, visibility and High Intensity Discharge work lights and another option for you would be an N series M type Kubota low profile orchard and vineyard tractor with a rear mount snow blower.

The orchard and vineyard tractor would give you huge amounts of visibility in all directions and the low profile design of the orchard and vineyard tractor provides you with a very low center of gravity to create good stability with ag tires an snow chains for your needs and a high output alternator lets you use HID work lights and a couple of light bars for increased visibility at night or in low light snow storm conditions.

They no longer seem to offer a front end loader option or Mid PTO but it cannot hurt to check if it is possible to add this option as it is an M series Kubota ag tractor.
The orchard and vineyard tractor also offers an air ride seat which I can testify is really a welcome option based on my past experience with them at my old job.

Short of this, using pair of kubota B1870's with kubota cabs with heater defrosters, snow chains, loaded turf tires, a front mounted snow blower on one unit and a small PTO powered sand spreader on the rear of the second unit will cost you less money than a kubota orchard and vineyard tractor with steel tracks with a loader and mid PTO for a front snow blower. The other thing to keep in mind is that if one BX1870 breaks down you will have the second one to use and the loader can be removed to install the snow blower on the other machine.

With your conditions you need chains and they have to be good snow and ice chains like the trygg snow and ice chains.
 
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   / Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway #20  
Those driveway pics are kinda nuts. In a mountainous area where you might have 2-4 feet on the ground.... your drive is super narrow. I'm kinda surprised you can even get a plow guy to come attempt that thing for you.

Agree with others. 50-60 HP, front blower, rear blade, chain all 4.

Have you ever gotten stuck trying to get home, and had to hike up? Dangerous place to live.... beautiful though.
 

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