Snowplow hydraulics

[tree grower]

Just discovered that the configuration of my short driveway is difficult to plow with the FEL on my little Ford 1210. Just bought the blade and frame of a plow that came off a Ferg TO30. The frame can be modified easy enough to fit the tractor, but the hydraulics are simpler than anything I have previously encountered. I have never had a piston that wasn't two-way, and I need to know what to buy for a hydraulic valve. I am thinking single-acting, one spool, open center, ~20 gpm, no detent. I assume plumbing is just one line from manifold, one line return to manifold, and one line to cylinder--pressure out, gravity back. Web search shows these from $50 to $770, and are often called a directional control valve. What is the significance of 'directional control' ? So....what should I buy?

 

[davedj1]

Just for lifting? A single acting, power up, gravity down.

1 Spool 20 GPM Prince RD-2575-T3-ESA1 SA Valve | Directional Control Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

1 Spool 20 GPM Prince RD-2575-T3-ESA1 SA Valve, Directional Control Valves, 1 SPOOL 20 GPM PRINCE RD-2575-T3-ESA1 SA VALVE, ONE SPOOL PRINCE CONTROLPrince Mfg,RD-2575-T3-ESA1 ,

www.surpluscenter.com

 

[franklin2]

Does your front end loader have a float feature? If it does, see how much it would cost just to replace the cylinder with one with two ports. Then you would have up, down pressure and float also. A cylinder may end up costing the same as a valve. If you do not have a float feature on the valve you have now though, I don't think I would go this route for plowing snow.

 

[tree grower]

My loader does have float, but the weight of a plow (at least the plow I bought) is heavy, and when added to the weight of the loader is quite a bit for this little tractor. Also, for this particular driveway I would like the plow close to the tractor instead of way out in front of loader arms. The Prince valve is what I had in mind, but very much appreciate the validation.

 

[Wolfy]

I bought a Fisher snowplow along with belt drive hydraulic pump off a Ford Bronco and installed it on my Ford 1600 with no loader. Its worked perfect for many years.

 

[camshawn]

I use a 2 way hydraulic cylinder and use my loader valve, up/ down, right /left for the angle. For float, the arm that the cylinder lifts is connected to the plow via a short chain. I can add down pressure by the arm pushing on the plow frame with the lift arm( I built it that way). Cam

 

[BlueKnife]

Just discovered that the configuration of my short driveway is difficult to plow with the FEL on my little Ford 1210. Just bought the blade and frame of a plow that came off a Ferg TO30. The frame can be modified easy enough to fit the tractor, but the hydraulics are simpler than anything I have previously encountered. I have never had a piston that wasn't two-way, and I need to know what to buy for a hydraulic valve. I am thinking single-acting, one spool, open center, ~20 gpm, no detent. I assume plumbing is just one line from manifold, one line return to manifold, and one line to cylinder--pressure out, gravity back. Web search shows these from $50 to $770, and are often called a directional control valve. What is the significance of 'directional control' ? So....what should I buy?

Don't need to bother changing valves. Just get a double acting cylinder. The plow hangs from a chain. Makes no difference if the weight of the plow sucks the cylinder down or if it powers itself down.

 

[tree grower]

I bought the valve recommended by davedj, and three new hoses---hi and low pressure to the pump and one to the lift cylinder. The cylinder lifts as expected, but drops slowly -- surprising in light of the heavy plow blade. Since all the new components are full of air, it is logical to think the system needs to be bled. How do I do that ? I don't see a bleeder screw on either the new valve or the hydraulic coupling block--see img 1626 in original post.

 

[BlueKnife]

What am I missing? Why bother switching valves? Seems like a lot more messing around than just swapping cylinders. Is it cheaper?

 

[oldnslo]

I bought the valve recommended by davedj, and three new hoses---hi and low pressure to the pump and one to the lift cylinder. The cylinder lifts as expected, but drops slowly -- surprising in light of the heavy plow blade. Since all the new components are full of air, it is logical to think the system needs to be bled. How do I do that ? I don't see a bleeder screw on either the new valve or the hydraulic coupling block--see img 1626 in original post.

Air would allow the blade to drop faster.

What size hose and fittings did you use to plumb from valve to cylinder? How long is this hose?

Same questions for tank line on the valve?

 

[tree grower]

Hoses and fittings are all 1/4". Hi and lo pressure hoses are 20" long, hose to cylinder is about 4 ft. When used on the old Ferguson tractor, the cylinder hose was about 6 ft, but still only 1/4". Small hoses, but pump is only 5 gpm. One more thought--oil at time of test was cold. FWIW supply lines for FEL are 3/8"

 

[camshawn]

In order for a single acting cylinder to collapse, the oil must return to the tank. The speed of that is dependent upon the amount of fluid that can pass through the smallest opening and the force applied to collapse the ram. Cam

 

[tree grower]

In order for a single acting cylinder to collapse, the oil must return to the tank. The speed of that is dependent upon the amount of fluid that can pass through the smallest opening and the force applied to collapse the ram. Cam

I'll see how things work after a real-life plowing exercise. We had a few inches of heavy wet snow in December--before I got the plow, but it has all melted, and there is none in the forecast. I may need to upgrade the return line to 3/8"

 

[tree grower]

Update--We have had two storms which required plowing. The hydraulics worked OK, but slow enough to indicate something just isn't right. Unrelated to this issue I plumbed a coupler into the work hose so I could completely separate the valve from the plow. Now there is pressure to the work port in both handle positions, and the cylinder will not collapse----however, if I shut off the engine and push the handle forward, the cylinder collapses just as I would expect. In reviewing the valve instructions, they said there is a plug in the outlet which must be removed if it is to act as an open spool. I removed the fitting in the outlet and could see there is no plug and the operating spool is clearly visible. I have reviewed the tractor manual re: hydraulic manifold and know the valve is plumbed correctly---tractor out to valve in, valve out to tractor in. I know I could remove the newly-installed coupler and return to original configuration, but I don't see how my problems are related to that. All I can think of is that there is some manufacturing defect or internal adjustment needed. Thoughts and recommendations requested.

 

[LD1]

Update--We have had two storms which required plowing. The hydraulics worked OK, but slow enough to indicate something just isn't right. Unrelated to this issue I plumbed a coupler into the work hose so I could completely separate the valve from the plow. Now there is pressure to the work port in both handle positions, and the cylinder will not collapse----however, if I shut off the engine and push the handle forward, the cylinder collapses just as I would expect. In reviewing the valve instructions, they said there is a plug in the outlet which must be removed if it is to act as an open spool. I removed the fitting in the outlet and could see there is no plug and the operating spool is clearly visible. I have reviewed the tractor manual re: hydraulic manifold and know the valve is plumbed correctly---tractor out to valve in, valve out to tractor in. I know I could remove the newly-installed coupler and return to original configuration, but I don't see how my problems are related to that. All I can think of is that there is some manufacturing defect or internal adjustment needed. Thoughts and recommendations requested.

No idea how you plumbed it or what is going on based off your description
Pictures showing what is plumbed and where would be a big first start

 

[tree grower]

Would love to send pics, but my computer died and I don't know how to download shots from my ipad to my wife's laptop. Fortunately, there is no snow in the forecast, so will have to wait til computer is repaired to continue this discussion.

 

[tree grower]

Update.2 Here are pics of valve and plumbing. The connector shown in #2 was previously a quick coupler, but it wasn't defective. As shown everything works, but cylinder still collapses slower than it should. Shut off engine, and it collapses quickly.

 

[5030]

Here ya go, easy peasy...

 

[BlueKnife]

Thoughts and recommendations requested.

You've made this far more complicated than it needs to be. Get rid of the new valve. Simply swap the single acting cylinder for a double acting one.

 

[LouNY]

I'm not sure how you have plumbed your valve, but I suspect that you have plumbed it as a power beyond.
This valve does not have that capability.

"Brand new PRINCE. RD2500 series. Hydraulic control valve for operating single acting cylinders. Monoblock high tensile strength gray cast iron body. Hard chrome plated spools. Open center with conversion plug for closed center applications. Load checks."

This valve can be used in an open center system, or a conversion plug added for a closed center system.
On your system which is open center the pressure feed needs to enter the valve at the Pressure port, then the return or T port must have unrestricted flow back to the tractors tank or reservoir the work port will go to your cylinder.
In normal operation all hydraulic flow will just pass through the valve from the pump to the tank with no restriction.
When the handle is operated to work the cylinder the valve piston is closing the flow through the valve and redirecting it to your cylinder.
When the handle is returned to neutral the flow is again directed to the tank and the fluid is locked to the cylinder. When the handle is operated to allow the cylinder to retract that flow is added to the flow that is passing through the valve from your pump.

The reason it will drop faster when the engine off is that you have no flow from the pump going through that small return line.

A double acting cylinder is not needed and will not work with that valve.