So Cal Wild Fires

[SnowRidge]

I just watched the NBC news coverage of the wild fires in Southern California. It is really bad out there. I know we have some members out there. Here's hoping they and their families are OK.

 

[rox]

I also am watching with intrest and empathy for all thos living near the fires. Remember 2 years ago when Portugal had horrific horrific fires? And now this year Greece experienced orrible fires. of course in the south fo France we also have them, I was evacuaed twice and our farm was the very last property on the eastern border of a 2 day fire, so I particularly watch with interest.

IMHO the only way to fight these fires is with airpower. When we had the big fire by us the Canadairs were grounded as a Canadair went down and the pilot and a crew member were killed. You have to hit the fires hard right away with air power. In California they ahve the Santa Anna winds, we ahve the Mistral. You know you have a wind issue if your winds are actually named. When I lived in Wisconsin we didn't name the wind

 

[jdbower]

My in-laws as well as my sister's in-laws are in the San Diego area so I've been watching, but so far they're OK. Here's a Google Maps mashup of the fires maintained by the LA Times.

 

[ultrarunner]

Once it reached FireStorm proportions... all bets are off. Eventually the fire will burn itself out or Mother Nature steps in and stops the wind and maybe some rain.

The Oakland FireStorm is something that I never want to go through again..

It is ironic that Fire Prevention takes a back seat to other rules and regs. A colleague was telling me his socal in-laws would disc around their place each year in late spring solely as a preventative measure. Seven years ago they received a cease and desist notice claiming the discing was endangering the habitat of a field mouse.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Once it reached FireStorm proportions... all bets are off. Eventually the fire will burn itself out or Mother Nature steps in and stops the wind and maybe some rain.

The Oakland FireStorm is something that I never want to go through again..

It is ironic that Fire Prevention takes a back seat to other rules and regs. A colleague was telling me his socal in-laws would disc around their place each year in late spring solely as a preventative measure. Seven years ago they received a cease and desist notice claiming the discing was endangering the habitat of a field mouse.

I have disked 100s if not 1000s of field mice and when I get told to stop, that will be the day that the government buys themselves another piece of property. I agree, peoples priorities seem to be out of line.

 

[rox]

Ultrarunner, Yeah once you have been through one you surely never want to ever go through it again. i knwo i am set for the rest of my life in that area.
What they do around southern france is they send the firetrucks and crews out all around the country side. For July and August you will drive down a country road and there will be a firetruck with the firemen sitting on a picnic table. then once a fire starts in this hills the trucks are already dispursed and can reach the fires quicker. the focus is on getting to the fires quickly before they get out of control. Sadly 99% of our fires are deliberatly set. It's a real problem here, it is not people thowing cigarettes out the car window. teh fires start in the middle of a non populated hillside. They know when that happens that it was deliberatly set. I hate it when there is fire at night because the airpower does not work at night. The medeterian sea is only a 5 minute plane ride from our place. I am really surprise we have not had that many fires this year, and if you are caught they throw you in the slammer and literally throw away the keys over here. We also ahve fire lookout stations there is one two hillsides away from us. I d like havng that maned firestation directly in site of my farm. I do feel real bad for all the california residents. Thankfully it is outside of the olvie growing area, at least i believe it is. rop farms loose one crop but crops grown on trees those farmers have to wait a lot of years for new trees to be planted and produce. For olvies it is 8 years. We jsut vistited a hug olive farm probably 10 times the size of ours and they will first get a crop next year from a fire they had in 2000. A house if you loose it doesn't take you 8 years to re-build. When you loose your house most of the time it doesn't mean that you loose your job and revenue as well. A fire to a farmer growing crops on trees is really devastating. Over here the fireman do everything possible to save olvie trees. they really work hard and treat an olive grove as something more valuabe to save than a house, really. An olive tree is jsut hitting it's prime at about 15 to 20 years. it will start producing at 8 years, but even then it is still a young tree. fires scare the crap out of me.

 

[_RaT_]

The really bright side to events like this is to see the massive effort by so many entities. Oregon, Washington, Idaho, etc are pitching in sending available fire crews to help. It does my heart good to see such commradery. I know we (Califronia) send crews all over the US. During the Katrina, 9/11, California sent so much of its professional workforce from dog search and rescue for 9/11 victims to our utility companies sending huge crews to New Orleans and Florida to help deal with these catastrophies. Thats the good I see from such terrible events.

 

[rox]

RaT, you are right everybody has to pull together in times of crises. and these fires are a crises. When greece had their bad fires this year, France, italy Germany and some scandaniavian countries sent Canadair firefighting airplanes to help. You have to help you neighbor, you never knwo when you yourself will need help.

 

[the_sandman_454]

Maybe a big fire like this is going to be enough to help kick the radical environmentalist idiots in the backside and get them to quit preventing proper reasonable forest management procedures. I bet those field mice are really happy now that they've all been incinerated. I'll be the drainage will be great now that a fire is hot enough to fuse some of the soil into glass.

Something is going to happen eventually big enough to make the government realize the environmentalist wackos have to be balanced out with common sense and fire prevention / forest management procedures. This sort of super wildfire is good for nobody and no creature.

From forest management issues like this to the water management idiocy plaguing Georgia thanks to a stupid non-native mussel, I have a feeling it won't be long until local communities tell the environmental groups, the courts, and everyone to stuff it. I can't blame people like that. I'd be in perfect support of so-called vigilantes going out to these areas and tending to them as they would be if the idiots hadn't been stirring up trouble by blocking such activities.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Unfortunately for everybody, it seems like one of the best attributes that most people used to have and seem to have lost is COMMON SENSE.
Hopefully someday it will return.

 

[RobertN]

I received this in a training email this morning. It's an excerpt from a Northern California training bulletin.

Hey...
Additional reports are that of the 4 Firefighters burned yesterday, 2 are critical and 2 are moderate. A little while ago, the IC in San Diego County called for 150 more strike teams. A strike team consists of 5 engine companies = 750 more engine companies. That helps put the fire situation in perspective.
The San Diego County Sheriff just stated that this is the worst disaster in San Diego County history.

Here is a radio link: San Diego Police Scanners

Here is a local news link: SignOnSanDiego.com | The San Diego Union-Tribune | San Diego news, California and national news

I just watched the NBC news coverage of the wild fires in Southern California. It is really bad out there. I know we have some members out there. Here's hoping they and their families are OK.

 

[cp1969]

IMHO the only way to fight these fires is with airpower. When we had the big fire by us the Canadairs were grounded as a Canadair went down and the pilot and a crew member were killed. You have to hit the fires hard right away with air power. In California they ahve the Santa Anna winds, we ahve the Mistral. You know you have a wind issue if your winds are actually named. When I lived in Wisconsin we didn't name the wind

I thought the wind's name was Mariah.

I see they are using DC-10's for air tankers now. I would have never thought a swept wing jet would be very useful for that purpose but, again, I am wrong. I don't know how slow you can go in that thing in mountainous terrain, but I would be surprised if it's much below 150-160 knots. At that speed, a lot of the retardant gets turned into such a fine spray that it isn't very effective. I always wondered if dropping retardant in flimsy containers (like a water balloon) that would burst in the treetops or when they hit the ground might not be more effective.

 

[RobertN]

Well volunteers in VT train at least once a week...and a large portion of the active force are minimally Nationally Certified FireFighters I...which matchs the same training as the big city...the only difference is the amount of equipment available to the various departments and the area of coverage...50 square miles vs 20 city blocks...

We train every other Wednesday eve. We also have the option to go in and train or ride along at our staffed houses(our district is about 1/2 and 1/2 staffed house and unstaffed/volunteer houses) with arrangements with the duty Captains.

Most of our volunteers who have been around for very long are Firefighter-1 certified. Anyone who wants to drive/operate in our district has to be minimum FF1 and have drive/operator certs. In addition, they must drive and pump a minimum number of hours each month.

Our driver/operators are only allowed to respond with Engines or water tenders that they are signed off for; sign off includes numerous hours of drive and operation time. It is actually difficult to get that training because it requires a lot of time personally, and a lot of time for the personell doing the training.

Although all volunteers in our District are required to have a minimum qualification of First Responder, a large majority take the time and effort to get full EMT certification. Locally that isa 5 unit college course. In addition, we have to recert for medical and CPR/AED every two years, but typically do it every year.

I'm going to speak up for the rural fire fighters. Most are volunteer, no matter what age. They don't really get paid for a fire call, it's more of a tip.

We do not get paid in our area. It's all for the love of the job. Some districts do have a pay per call. Not our area though.

BTW, there are no ponds near my place save for the filthy beaver pond at the bottom of a hill. Need the tanker out there...

Ponds are only good if you have good access. An engine can only draft from about 24' away at best. Past that and you have to have a porta pump. Also, you can't get an engine too close to a pond; it takes a wrecker to pull them out when 26000lbs sinks to the frame. Seen a few do that just pulling off the side of the road in the spring time.

And, if you ask for a Tanker, look overhead; you'll get an airplane with retardant. Insert Water Tender there . Then you'll get 2800 gallons of water, at least from our station

 

[3RRL]

Here is another link that describes each fire out here.

WELCOME TO CAL FIRE

It's unbelievable! My residential home in So. Cal. is in San Bernardino county, right by the Los Angeles county line. So the fires are all around me. You can see it on the map link Robert N posted. My rural property is not near any of those, luckily.

 

[riptides]

I think some of the news crews are mis-informing people about practicing fire safety around their homes. One can clear brush, disk, add water sources and what not, but these are fire storms. 50 to 60+ mile an hour winds with 1000 degree temperatures are going to go where they want to. Fast, furious and uncaring.

Good luck to those in California, I hope you all get the help your going to need. This is yet another disaster of epic proportions. Unreal.

-Mike Z.

 

[AlanB]

Truly the firestorms are a tragedy of epic proportions, but what struck me on the news this morning was when they showed the stadiums of evacuees.

Lets see, organized Yoga classes, kids arranging stuffed animals, neat and orderly, folks helping each other. I realize the situation is vastly different then what went on in Katrina, but the visuals of the stadiums and the situations inside was astounding too me.

 

[MossRoad]

Maybe a big fire like this is going to be enough to help kick the radical environmentalist idiots ...

Maybe if people would not build million dollar homes out of firewood on fragile soil in dry canyons that are prone to high wind, no one would notice that some weird little unique species of field mouse even lived there in the first place.

 

[the_sandman_454]

Now I'm not saying I'd like to tear up the environment but what I am saying is it makes more sense to manage forests and other areas to help avert fire danger. It's better for the humans and the animals, plants and organisms in the soil if the firestorms can be reduced to normal wildfires.

I would hate to see restrictions on where people can live. That's not what this country stands for, or at least used to stand for. Besides, animals are often much more resilient than the media and "environmental" groups would lead us to believe. Take the spotted owl for example. The one Al Gore and his buddies preached could only live in virgin forests and so forth? Remember that crazy little owl? Well I saw a few news articles back then of these things living in a freakin' WalMart sign and other equally silly places including non virgin forests. Animals, if given a chance will adapt to changes in their environment, and for the most part are a lot more resilient than given credit for.

 

[riptides]

I think the problem out west, and in California in particular is we have been "managing" forest fire burns for 150 years.

Fire was always a part of the eco-system.

-Mike Z.

 

[the_sandman_454]

I agree, that's a big part of the problem. Now let's find a solution. To me that means forest/fire management through a combination of selective thinning of forests, controlled burns, and various other techniques. Just letting things go now is bad for everybody. Just like every other time we've tried to manage things, it has gotten out of balance. Now what we need to do is find the new balance, if we can get the environmentalists to allow it to happen.

The problem with environmentalists is they won't support anything other than absolute restriction in various areas. The answer is almost never black and white, it's a shade of gray someplace in the middle of the two extremes. They don't realize "hey in order to help species X, we need to make sure it won't go up in a super fire and kill them all anyway"...