Oil & Fuel So Valvoline produces ALL of Kubota lubricants...

[Industrial Toys]

I have a friend that bought a high dollar toilet that cleans your bum and blow dries it too.

 

[Smokeydog]

I've had the opposite experience, and I've changed a lot of oil in the last half century.

Before my HST oil experiment I don't recall that an oil change in engine, tranny, PS, axle, or hydraulics made any audible difference.
I think I'd remember if it had, because it would sure would make me nervous about the oil I was using.
But in HST tranny's it seems that the oil does make a difference in sound. Whether fact or belief, I've heard it mentioned before on TBN & wasn't sure what to make of it.

So it surprised me when I could hear the difference with a different trans/hydraulic oils in the HST M59. I'd guess that anyone could hear the difference.
rScotty

With your local Kubota dealer and your test in your own equipment is a noteworthy experience. I associate (maybe incorrectly) hydraulic whine with cavitation. Cavitation causing wear of components and fluid in our HST systems. Would also be interested if you noted a lower transmission/hydraulic operating temperatures? Also subjective but maybe a test by mowing or road travel to compare. Something to think about before my next oil change.

 

[rScotty]

With your local Kubota dealer and your test in your own equipment is a noteworthy experience. I associate (maybe incorrectly) hydraulic whine with cavitation. Cavitation causing wear of components and fluid in our HST systems. Would also be interested if you noted a lower transmission/hydraulic operating temperatures? Also subjective but maybe a test by mowing or road travel to compare. Something to think about before my next oil change.

The Kubota M59 doesn't have a transmisson/hydraulic temperature gauge. The workshop manual says it is designed to run with the HST/Hyd. fluid at 40-60C or 104-140F. That's not very hot. Still, it seems seems about what I feel when touching the hoses after using it a while. They are warm, not hot. I'd notice if they were hot.

You bring up an interesting question.... Exactly what is it that a HST does that causes it to whine? Maybe it's cavitation, maybe something else. I don't have any idea.

We've got quite a few instances here on TBN of owners claiming they have heard the HST whine sound vary with type of oil. In fact, I'm one.
But correlating noise with type of oil is weak. I think I heard it and I still don't like it.... It's just too subjective to measure well, plus it doesn't always happen, and it can't be very repeatable or I think we would have figured it out by now.

One thing I think everyone is noticed is that whine gets louder for a moment when the transmission has to pull hard to get moving - like climbing a hill or in a high gear range.

So the noise is louder under load and maybe with certain oils. But exactly what is causing the noise? I surely don't know.
rScotty

 

[5030]

Lots of parts inside. I suspect it's the swash plate assembly that 'whines'. My zero turn mower exhibits the same whining sound when mowing, especially when going from forward to reverse. It's a Hydro Gear twin IZT pump setup. I ignore it. Just mechanical / hydraulic noise.

Interestingly, Hydro Gear specifies 15-40 motor oil instead of any hydraulic fluid. I use Rotella 15-40 in it and that is what HG packages in their factory authorized change kits as well.

 

[5030]

I have a friend that bought a high dollar toilet that cleans your bum and blow dries it too.

I'll pass on that. TP is fine with me. Don't need 'hosed' off after a dump.

 

[oosik]

Sorry - IT. I can not pass on that. Where do you get one of those type toilets? At your local Kubota dealership? :laughing: :cool2:

 

[Paystar]

I only have one comment to add here. My B2620 didn't have a lot of whine when it was new. Did the first change at 50 hours and put in the Canadian Premium UDT. Transmission whine got worse. Next change at just before 200 hours bought SUDT from the States. It still whines but not as much. So the US oil seems to be better than the Canadian stuff we get.

 

[otlski]

Sorry - IT. I can not pass on that. Where do you get one of those type toilets? At your local Kubota dealership? :laughing: :cool2:

Yes. They are made by the home-goods manufacturing division of Valvoline.

 

[5030]

Sorry - IT. I can not pass on that. Where do you get one of those type toilets? At your local Kubota dealership? :laughing: :cool2:

The toilet comment reminds me of something I heard years ago... 'Why is your toilet seat like the Starship Enterprise?.... Because it circles Uranus looking for Klingon's'...

Thought I'd share that.

 

[MHarryE]

Cavitation is one possible source of whine but not the only one. Port design of the rotating group components is the primary whine reducer. Generally gear pumps are limited to 85 degrees C and piston pumps to 100 degrees C but the important parameter is fluid viscosity. Piston pump optimum range is 16 to 36 cSt - stay in this range and the rotating group should get infinite life. But outdoors it’s impossible. A cold start at freezing is going to have a typical oil at 400 cSt. So for normal operation the range is 10 to 400 cSt. Kubota UDT is between 9 and 10 cSt at 100 degrees C so one could consider that to be the internal oil temperature limit - but where can you measure it? Easiest is using an I-R thermometer on the filter but that is the oil going into the hydro, the coldest part of the loop. A 15W-40 synthetic is good in high temp areas like AZ because it is about 14 cSt at 100 C. I mention synthetic because mineral oils use viscosity enhancers in a 15 base oil to get the 40 top end. Problem is the enhancers shear down in high pressure hydraulic systems leaving you with a straight 15. Quality synthetics don’t shear down. Somewhere in my files I have a shear down spreadsheet from our testing of various oils and it’s quite dramatic but I could never give out that info except in generalities. The hydraulic suppliers I work with focus on viscosity being the critical factor, not temperature. Now as a retiree spending my time farming, I get obsessive measuring hydraulic oil temperatures. Part of that comes from having to resolve a problem with failing hydros in Arab Emirates. However my Minnesota farm where it rarely reaches 100F is no challenge compared to commonly exceeding 120F in the Persian Gulf. But even in America there are problems. I had a problem with hydros on machines working at the Palm Springs airport coming to a stop because the oil viscosity was so low at 122F that it leaked past the control seals and wouldn’t allow the pump to stroke under load. The pump supplier redesigned the seals but in the meantime our crutch fix was straight SAE 50 transmission and drive train oil (not gear lube - no-no for hydraulics. Crazy to be out working on a runway when the airplanes can’t land due to sinking in the asphalt but that’s why I was paid enough to keep myself in new equipment (mostly) while my nephew, who is my farming guide, buys 40 year old tractors and has a full time and a part time mechanic to keep them limping along. It is enjoyable to be able to closely monitor my small stable precisely rather than having one call from the Gulf and the next call from a contractor in China at 16,000 foot elevation asking if his turbo is going to spool out of control in the thin air.