Soil screening question

[StrangeRanger]

My back "yard" needs work. The guy that originally did it did a horrible job. It's spotty grass, weeds, who knows what and a bazillion rocks. The rocks range in size from pebbles to gigantic pumpkin sized. I've tried a lot of approaches like power rakes, landscape rakes, my box blade etc. All w/ limited to crappy success.

I know, the rocks will simply return every spring, but I'm thinking of basically digging up the top X inches of soil, screening it, and replanting grass. I'm thinking if I can get some grass growing and clear the top X inches of most of the rocks it will at least slow their return to a manageable rate.

But my question is this, since I do have some grass/weeds/crud how well is a screener going to work do you think? Will I simply get big clods of grass and dirt balls rolling around on the screen? I'm betting I'm going to have to do a fair amount of "hand work" to get the clod balls off. Do any of you have any similar experience? Do you have any pointers for me?

Thanks,
j

 

[boogerman2000]

I have similiar issues. Our home was finished back in May of 06' and the contractor's rock hound kept stalling his bobcat and I just decided on him giving me a cash credit and I would handle the task myself. I bought a york rake and used it with my BX23 which seemed to work well. Fertilized, Limed, Planted, Strawed and watered and by the time the grass grew, I had a ton of rocks back up on the surface. I paid my nephews to go through the entire yard and throw the rocks over the hill. Some of the areas came in like golf course grass and others where like a barron desert with just spotty grass. The following year I purchased 40 tons of raw topsoil and 20 tons of screened. I respread the raw topsoil over part of the the existing back lawn and I top coated the desert parts with the screened soil. Replanted and watered. Things seemed to come in a little thicker but still I had spotty coverage. All along I never did a thing from the first planting on the front of my home. The front seemed to growing in thicker by the day. In the fall, I core aerated with a lowe's aerator, limed and overcast seed. This spring I aerated again, limed and fertilized with weed and feed and wholey moley is the grass growing nicely. We've been getting plenty of rain but everyone kept telling me that it takes several years to establish a thick lawn. There are still some places that could use some topcoating and seeding but I'm very pleased. I have a very compacted clay base and I read somewhere that it takes 10 to 12 inches of topsoil to get a good lawn growing over a base like that. Well I have about 4 to 5 inches down and things are looking up. I'm having to cut each week and the dogs and deer love it. With all this said, as I cut, I still find myself bending down and flicking rocks out of the ground and over the hill everytime I mow, however with the grass getting thicker, it does not seem to be as much of an issue as it was.

I don't think I really answered your question, however this was just my experience and it's been very frustrated.

 

[StrangeRanger]

I don't think I really answered your question, however this was just my experience and it's been very frustrated.

LOL exactly what I was thinking, but I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in the lawn battle.

Our soil here is not clay, but it's shale w/ a lot of loose rock thrown in for good measure. It's said that VT is know for growing rocks and maple trees.

I've got some areas that have come in very nicely over the past couple years, but the back area is simply too rocky for anything to survive and get established. And I can't afford to have truck load after truck load of top soil brought in. So I'm trying to do the best w/ what I've got. Plus it's a great excuse for some serious seat time.
j

 

[offcamber]

I can't answer your question either but...I think you were on the right track with the kandscape rake.
When my leach field was replaced I was ina similar situation....however the landscape rake really worked for me....anyone that lives here in NH will tell you that the rocks grow right out fo the ground....first cut of the season I raise the deck to about 3" that way I save my blades and can see the the new rocks.

Since buying the BX I been on the war path with the bigger rocks I couldn't dig out or move before.

Good Luck

 

[seapea]

I repeatedly read on TBN about people that remove rocks from the surface of their yard, only to find new ones emerging the next year. Is there some physics involved here that cause rocks to move upwards in the soil, or are these just rocks that were just below the surface, worked their way loose for whatever reason, and are now on the surface.

 

[ChuckinNH]

It is the freeze / thaw cycles in the northern climates that causes rocks to work their way to the top. There is moisture in the soil, and the soil "heaves" when it freezes, and eventually moves the rocks to the surface, and sometimes makes a mess of the secondary paved roads. "Frost Heaves" are a way of life up here, and can be pretty brutal on vehicle suspensions, and steering components.

 

[LonghornSam]

I have had a pretty decent bluegrass lawn for the last few years however the last two years we manually detchatched the lawn each spring and did the core aeration treatment as well. I can say without a doubt that my established lawn went from good to spectacular with the core aeration and dethatching. That along with regular fertilization on cycles throughout the year put mine over the top.

 

[seapea]

It is the freeze / thaw cycles in the northern climates that causes rocks to work their way to the top. There is moisture in the soil, and the soil "heaves" when it freezes, and eventually moves the rocks to the surface, and sometimes makes a mess of the secondary paved roads. "Frost Heaves" are a way of life up here, and can be pretty brutal on vehicle suspensions, and steering components.

That's good to know, since I'm about to clear a 1 acre field of small stones to use for sports. No freeze/thaw concerns here.

 

[boogerman2000]

What do you guys feel is a good fertilizer cycle and what works the best for you? I know multiple people told me you can never have enough lime.

 

[StrangeRanger]

Seapea, frost/thaw cycles are so bad that if you don't dig foundations/pilings deep enough they will move buildings never mind simply rocks. I've seen a lot of poorly built decks for example that rise and fall up to about a foot over the winter. People think they'll save a little money on their footings only to have to replace the deck and/or parts of their house a year later.

As for the rocks, as I said, I know they'll be back and in force, but if I could just get the lawn started it will slow that process. Slow it to the point where it won't be too bad to pick them out as I go along mowing now and then. But right now it's literally a sprinkling of grass, a lot of weeds and straw and millions of rocks. If I could find my dang camera I'd show what I'm up against.
j

 

[curtisfarmer]

Someone mentioned leach fileds and lawns.....I do alot of lawn installs and many atop leach fields. First is the fact that all contractors suck *** when it comes time to do thelawn right the first time, the usually put down just enough to get germination and then close on the loan. Second problem is unknowing homeowners or stupid landscapers use wheeled machines atop leach fields to do the rebuild. A BIG no no. Wheeled machines hauling dirt atop a leach field compacts the soil of the leach system and eventually eroding the lifespan of the system. The ground pressure from wheeled machines is too much for the porisity required for the designed system. I use L48s for my company and with dirt in the bucket I simply refuse to work atop septics in case of compaction. I bucket the dirt on the side and then use my KX121-3 with grading bucket to spread the topsoil. The tracked machine is low ground pressure and is the only safe way to install such a lawn. My average lawn install is over 100 yards of sifted topsoil with a 4" minimum depth. People don't realize how expensive lawn installs are, except the scamming contractors who know exactly how much it costs....and how much they can save by skimping. At least 25-30% of my business is fixing things that where not done right the first time. I take every bit of dirt home to my yard and I must have 400+ yards of soil "aging" and ready to be sifted and shipped out. I pay $18 a yard delivered, others charge $25 + delivery. I use my raw topsoil for landscape construction and things where sifted isn't needed much. When you add up the soil, seed, machines, and warranty costs..it adds up big time. Last year I did more lawns than I ever have, then had the driest August on record, and many warraty reseeds which eats at the profit. This year I am only doing hydroseeding which I pass the warranty claims along to my hydro sub contractor. Lawns take at least 1 year+ to establish, and only with regular maintenece, spot reseeding, fertilzing and thatching do they come out great. Lawns are one of the toughest parts of landscape construction.

 

[NuBota]

I fight a similar issue - sandy soil and pea gravel on top of clay and 20+ degree slopes. If grass hasn't taken hold, every rain brings the gravel to the surface - like walking on ball bearings....

before I got the BX, would just use a drag on the lawn tractor and rake and shovel. Get the gravel off the surface, plant seed, straw and hope no big deluge came before the seed took. I started attacking in sections, because some areas were deep shade and others more sunny.

I also learned to not perform weed control the first year or two - just lime and fertilizer - ANY vegetation was good if it took hold with the seed. Once the ratio of grass to weed was high enough, would start the weed control. Right now after 6 years, my front is thick with no weeds (been good the last 3 years - was my first section) This year the sides and most of the back have come in - almost an acre worth

If I had had the BX I probably would have brought in soil - or tried screening - now I'm extending the yard into the woods a bit more - but the soil there is good

 

[seapea]

Someone mentioned leach fileds and lawns..... A BIG no no. Wheeled machines hauling dirt atop a leach field compacts the soil of the leach system and eventually eroding the lifespan of the system. The ground pressure from wheeled machines is too much for the porisity required for the designed system. ...

My leach lines are buried at least 6' below the surface, if not more, because they are on an uphill grade from the septic tank, which is two feet below grade itself because it is slighly up hill from the house. I plan on dumping about 100 or 200 yards of muchroom compost on the field using a 5 yard dump truck this summer. Because of how deap the leach lines are, and the fact that we won't have had rain for 5 months by the time I do this, I think they will be fine. The soil will be like concrete by then.

BTW, the muchroom compost is free and just a 1 mile down the road. I'm hoping to get at least 4 runs per hour done.

 

[MarkV]

What do you guys feel is a good fertilizer cycle and what works the best for you? I know multiple people told me you can never have enough lime.

Fertilizing cycles and the type of fertilizer really depends on the type of turf you are growing. If the soil in your area is real acidic it can be hard to put too much lime down but you sure can put too much lime down. It is all about getting the PH to the proper place so the plants can use the nutrients in the soil. The only accurate way to know how much lime or fertilizer is required is with a soil test. Your local county extension agent or farm co-op generally provides soil testing services at reasonable prices. With the cost of fertilizer these days it is good to know how much you really need.

MarkV

 

[curtisfarmer]

Interesting enough, my friend who installs septic systems claims as much water evaporates upward as does downwards and that is why most systems are close to the surface with slightly less than 1.5' of cover. It depends on your soil type as to what your design is, but more times than not the contractor skimps on the topsoil.

 

[Oldtrout]

I had a call today from a customer who wanted an estimate to actually remove some stumps and make a lawn for their new house,actually they have 6 new homes all rental units, well I went to have a peek and see what they actually wanted,the first thing I spotted was the septic beds appox 4 feet above grade and 6 foot alders growing on the bed,not a bit of topsoil all sand.
I first looked at the stumps,not a major job to remove and cover with some topsoil,lime, fertilerize,and seed gave them a price to do all their properties and got the go ahead will start next week.
Than the lady said how about the septic systems; I told them up front they were not properly finished and were a mess to which they agreed. Than the question. Can you fix? Yes I can fix but its not cheap,what I proposed to do is cut and remove all the alders and spray with roundup,than cover with 4 inches of mixed topsoil,peat and rotted cow manure,than lay sod.I could seed however with the slope I figure with a heavy rain it would wash out where as I can stake the sod until it becomes rooted and than its a simple matter of running over it every couple of weeks with a lawn mower. More problems these people are from Germany and only here a few weeks a year and they don't want to have to maintain lawns . Yep I can send a crew out to mow the septic systems once a month but we are 60 miles away our travel time would be more than our actually labour. These people are from Germany. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can assist these people? I am open to all suggestions;however what I suggested is the best I can come up with, money is not an object with these people however I don't want to seem to be taking advantage of them.

 

[ChuckinNH]

If they are comfortable dealing with you, and that seems to be the case, you might consider sub contracting the maintenance, and keeping an eye on it for them?

 

[curtisfarmer]

If you have to sub contract it, you shouldn't be doing the work anyways. Bad mojo, too many things can go wrong. I got screwed once and I said never again. Made me look real bad and I lost a major customer. Just some advise.

 

[StrangeRanger]

I know for proper fertilizing I should have my soil PH tested. But I was wondering if anyone knows how well those little jobbers you stick in the ground work? Has anyone seen these?
I don't mind bringing samples to the local co-op, but just thought it'd be nice to be able to test maybe more often or w/out the trip to the co-op. Just wondering.
j