Solar Panels on poss. unpermitted structure question

[bazman82]

So, I have been looking into the idea of getting solar panels installed. My biggest concern is that inspectors need to come out for permits and final inspection process from what I gather.

While the house and 1 possibly 2 outbuildings are actually permitted, the section of roofing that we would want to use because it is the biggest and most open has been an unpermitted add on. So to give a little more info, the barn is a permitted building on the property. About 18' east of the barn is another building "The shop". The shop I believe is permitted as well but not 100%. So the previous owner (my wifes gdpa, still lives with us but we own the property now) had built many add-ons to these 2 buildings with the last add-on actually connecting the 2 so that we now have a nice covered area to get from the driveway to part of the back pasture area. These add-ons were done over the span of about 40 years.

The most recent add-on we did has the best spot for the panels in my opinion and also the most space. Is there any reason to be concerned over the town coming out to do the permit or final inspection? Has anyone had any experience with in this particular situation? I know different areas will have different rules and what not so I am hoping when the solar guy comes out to answer our questions that he will have the info to give me. Is there any specific questions I should key in on while that guy is here as well? I don't know much about solar and I already have a huge list to ask but it wont hurt to ask a lot of questions either as its a lot of money being spent..

 

[Diggin It]

Some localities might grandfather approval of older structures.

Some localities have been known to demand demolition.

 

[EddieWalker]

Friend of mine back in CA was a city manager for the city of Oakland CA. He spent his entire life in government and loved messing with them. He also had some land in the area that we hunted on that the Park District wanted, so they harassed us all the time, and he sued them all the time. One year he decided to build a pond. He knew that it would be impossible to get a permit to do this, so he did it anyway, without permits. A couple months later a list of all sorts of environmental agencies, to county officials to Park rangers and so on showed up to shut him down, fine him and told him to restore the land to how it was. He told them to pound sand, and that the pond had always been there, going back to before the trees grew on the dam, which he cut up to show them the growth rings. He was restoring an existing pond and not building a new one. They fell for it and he got a new pond.

I don't know NY or the rules there, but odds are very good that the building was built before they had code, or permits, or anybody telling the owner what to do.

If it was built before you had to have a permit, they can pound sand.

 

[Wood_Butcher_Dav]

I just had a 9.2 KW system installed late last year in Illinois. Can't answer about permits but make sure to find out about any state programs that may be available to you. The big problem is paying for the system and then waiting for this years federal tax credit (slowly going away) and the IL Shine program rebate. The only small hiccup was the power company wanted a one million dollar liability and my home owners was 500k, so an addition Marine policy for a year. So glad that my rural area has very few permits. Idea roof location should be facing south.

Dave

 

[shooterdon]

You would be wise to consult and attorney. But I suspect the county already knows about the structures. We get visits occasionally and I am sure they drive by and asses any changes. Some counties are lax and others are not.

 

[CobyRupert]

I's want to know who exactly they send to inspect. "Building inspectors" or "electrical inspectors".....and/or tax assessors?

FYI: Your county also has "some" of your information on line. (Not as much as mine). If you go to the map and click on the "property owners" and "parcel" on the layer's list, you can then see your property when you zoom in. Clicking on your property give you some information, but I don't see how to get the more detailed information (like my county) that tells property history (taxes, when bought sold, acerage, square footage, # of bath and bedrooms, additions, etc...)
Niagara County HTML5 2.5

 

[fishheadbob]

Don't shoot yourself in the foot. Ask the salesman who would be doing the inspection. If it's something like an independent electrical inspector you might not have any assessment issues. If on the other hand it will be someone from the town building department there could be trouble. The issue is that you have a lot of unpermitted square footage about which the town is unaware. If the building department sees it they routinely notify the assessor who raises your assessment which means higher taxes. In my township a few miles from you there are also fines for doing stuff without a building permit and inspections. In extreme cases they can try to make you remove such structures since they were never inspected and may possibly be way below code and even hazardous. Proceed with caution.

 

[LouNY]

If you go on the GIS website for your county you will see that they have photos of everything you have,
they update those photos frequently and when they do they use an optical recognition software that alerts them to changes.
Those alert updates are then forwarded to your towns building inspectors and assessors.
The GIS site for your county will also link to your tax profile and it will have all of your assessed values and square footage,
as well as the actual tax amount and when you paid it, also historical tax information for several years.
Anyone can access this data and it can be searched by name or address as well as viewing an overview and clicking in on a parcel.

 

[bazman82]

If you go on the GIS website for your county you will see that they have photos of everything you have,
they update those photos frequently and when they do they use an optical recognition software that alerts them to changes.
Those alert updates are then forwarded to your towns building inspectors and assessors.
The GIS site for your county will also link to your tax profile and it will have all of your assessed values and square footage,
as well as the actual tax amount and when you paid it, also historical tax information for several years.
Anyone can access this data and it can be searched by name or address as well as viewing an overview and clicking in on a parcel.

Well the last major add-on was about 8 years ago and that was connecting the barn to the shop. The only 2 buildings on the property that have permits are the barn and house, everything else has been added on to. I believe the biggest adds were done in the 80's and early 90's. I know I will be asking the solar guy when he comes out a lot about it and if they have installed any in our township (Pendleton). We do have the barn and shop covered under insurance as 1 building as well since they do connect. This was something I did when we acquired the house in our name last winter. If we are required a 1mil dollar insurance policy then that additional cost would make getting solar not worth it. I don't have land space behind us because we have power lines through the middle of the property and I don't want to sacrifice the section of hay fields next to us since we use that space for a variety of things.

I will definitely wait to see what the solar guy says but from what I am finding online and hearing here, I will most likely pass on solar. I can't risk having to take down any of the buildings that are up. Maybe I will look at a residential windmill and see what they offer..

 

[bazman82]

I's want to know who exactly they send to inspect. "Building inspectors" or "electrical inspectors".....and/or tax assessors?

FYI: Your county also has "some" of your information on line. (Not as much as mine). If you go to the map and click on the "property owners" and "parcel" on the layer's list, you can then see your property when you zoom in. Clicking on your property give you some information, but I don't see how to get the more detailed information (like my county) that tells property history (taxes, when bought sold, acerage, square footage, # of bath and bedrooms, additions, etc...)
Niagara County HTML5 2.5

I clicked on that. It has when bought and sold, acerage, sqftage, grade, condition etc etc. Not really sure what all the numbers would be good for. Grade is C, condition is 3 etc

 

[LouNY]

Well the last major add-on was about 8 years ago and that was connecting the barn to the shop. The only 2 buildings on the property that have permits are the barn and house, everything else has been added on to. I believe the biggest adds were done in the 80's and early 90's. I know I will be asking the solar guy when he comes out a lot about it and if they have installed any in our township (Pendleton). We do have the barn and shop covered under insurance as 1 building as well since they do connect. This was something I did when we acquired the house in our name last winter. If we are required a 1mil dollar insurance policy then that additional cost would make getting solar not worth it. I don't have land space behind us because we have power lines through the middle of the property and I don't want to sacrifice the section of hay fields next to us since we use that space for a variety of things.

I will definitely wait to see what the solar guy says but from what I am finding online and hearing here, I will most likely pass on solar. I can't risk having to take down any of the buildings that are up. Maybe I will look at a residential windmill and see what they offer..

With your property having a title transfer done every official in your county and town has seen the GIS photos.
I wouldn't be too concerned with having to take any buildings down. I would be a bit concerned with the additional weight loading the roof may get.
To the best of my knowledge there is no incentive money for small scale wind power, when In looked into it needed sustained 25 mph winds
to be in the least bit economical and productive.

 

[zzvyb6]

What's the Zoning code for your property ? I'm 'agricultural' in Michigan. No permits required other than for HVAC on the residence/living space/house.

Tell them that your buildings were for materials storage when they built the Erie Canal and continue to be upgraded.

I once set up a windmill on a friend's property [ as in vintage water pumping farm windmill ]. When I set the anchor irons in the ground, I carved "1929" in the wet concrete. Inspector came snooping around and we showed him that it was a 'restoration'. No permit needed as a result. Otherwise, Engineering Certification drawings signed by a licensed architect, County Water and Sewer permits, elevation measurements, site approval, fence to keep people from getting near the tower, and of course, approval FROM THE LOCAL AIRPORT !

 

[bazman82]

With your property having a title transfer done every official in your county and town has seen the GIS photos.
I wouldn't be too concerned with having to take any buildings down. I would be a bit concerned with the additional weight loading the roof may get.
To the best of my knowledge there is no incentive money for small scale wind power, when In looked into it needed sustained 25 mph winds
to be in the least bit economical and productive.

Actually, it wasn't a complete title transfer. It was a title transfer with clause in it. I cant recall the wording for it off the top of my head. Basically, my wifes gdpa owned the house and put our names on the deed while he stays on the deed as well with a life use clause..So for tax purposes, his name and my name are on the property. We did this so that way when the time comes, the house will already be in mine and my wifes name. Trying to have the lawyers not get so much afterwards. I assume it wouldn't matter either way then for the officials to have taken a look anyways though.

 

[bazman82]

Town of Pendleton, NY District Regulations

This is the zoning stuff for my lot. We are the § 247-11
R2 District: Medium-Density Residential. portion on that page. We have 52 acres so I'll continue reading further into this and try to decipher the legal wordings.

 

[mike48130]

Start by looking on line like they said. They will have the building sizes and should be a drawing of all the building sizes. If they are shown and you are being taxed, then you should be good. The risk is not no permits, but did you follow the land usage sizing. If you did everything legal, then the risk is your taxes will go up when they add the extra building sizes to your assessment. They love to re-assess.

 

[Zippo1]

We had solar panels installed a year ago. The only permit needed was electrical (plus approval and some work by the power company). The only inspection needed for ours was an inspection of the electrical portion of the installation. The inspector didn't seem to care about the panels or where they were located but he was real concerned that the electrical portion of the installation was done correctly.

 

[Grumpycat]

Contact your electric utility before installing PV system. Bet you are counting on grid-tie to sell excess back to the utility? Sometimes they are forced to accept anything you do, sometimes (if TVA is involved) they are a-holes about having the system "designed" by someone with NABCEP credentials.

NABCEP is primarily a solar lobby group. TVA is protecting a limited group of installers. NABCEP training is heavy on solar advocacy and calculation of carbon offsets. Useless.

If you have a mechanical electric meter then it will run backwards when you generate excess. If electronic meter then is likely it runs forward no matter which way the current flows. That means if you don't get it fixed the utility will bill you for the power you generated.

Finally, the utility will insist on an accessible PV cutoff box. They fear that somehow when the lines are down that you will power the lines and hurt the linemen. Never mind the PV inverter must have an AC signal to sync for operation.

 

[LD1]

Too many of these questions and answers need to be had at a local level.

You are getting responses from people all over the country, with all different types of zoning and code enforcement. And honestly, very little of it probably applys to your situation.

That said, I doubt you will have to tear down anything, If there are building codes pertaining to wind loading, snow load, etc and they were not followed.....they could potentially deem the structure unsafe and may make you bring it up to current code. As well as probably levying a fine, and re-assessing, your property taxes.

But again, all that is handled at the local level and county auditor.

 

[CobyRupert]

I wonder if the fact that you acquired the property “in your own name” last year (I assume a transfer of deed?) gets you in the clear when it comes to un-permitted buildings?
You’re not responsible for the “previous owners” .

 

[newbury]

<snip> If on the other hand it will be someone from the town building department there could be trouble. The issue is that you have a lot of unpermitted square footage about which the town is unaware. If the building department sees it they routinely notify the assessor who raises your assessment which means higher taxes. In my township a few miles from you there are also fines for doing stuff without a building permit and inspections. In extreme cases they can try to make you remove such structures since they were never inspected and may possibly be way below code and even hazardous. Proceed with caution.

Town building departments can be a nightmare.
I've a house I've owned since '78. When bought it had an old 10x12 cement block chicken coop w/ failing roof about 30 yards from the house. I fixed it into a shed. Then moved and rented the house and land out.
Fast forward 35 years, tenants are gone, son & family have moved in and I want to expand the house. 1st county inspector come around tells me the coop has to go, it's too close to the property line (about 4 feet) and needs to be removed before any permit for house addition. I was furious. They had been taxing the property with that listed for 35 years.
I got a second county inspector to agree and over rule the first.
Some county inspectors I've met act like they have little fiefdoms.