Solar Power

[GlueGuy]

I would imaging that there is a moderate amount of danger in high wind, but most of them have systems for managing high wind conditions (like a tail that moves the blades obliqly (spell?) to the wind as the velocity goes up). In this case the generator is able to extract power in high wind without causing harm to itself.

The other issue with wind generators is the noise factor. Wouldn't want one too close to the house because of the almost-constant thrumming that they make.

Also consider that a generator only can be relied upon for about 1/3 of its rated capacity. That means that a 300W unit is actually more like 100W. 1KW is going to give you your 300W, and a 2KW for your 600W.

The GlueGuy

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

GlueGuy,

The rated watt output usually varies based on speed of the wind. Somewhere around here I've got a book about it that lists the output based on wind speed. Usually, output kicks in around 12-18 mph and increases dramatically for every 1 or 2 mph increase in wind speed. 12-18 doesn't sound like much, but its just below a good breeze. I spent a summer as ground crew for a hot air balloon and learned real respect for a 12 mph wind when it dragged the half-inflated ballon, basket and screaming old me across a football field. It was kinda like trying to hold onto a bus.

Michigan is (I think) rated as the 5th windiest state. Also #2 in lightning deaths. There are quite a few wind generators around here. There's one place a few miles from the farm that has 5 windchargers and appears to be totally off the grid. North of here there's a commerical plant churning out power off the bay. Just not sure how they are handling the lightning strikes.

SHF

 

[patrickg]

OK, Glue Guy, if you tell me about your John Denver signature model death trap I'll take back one of the terrible things I said. How about the slur on the intelligence of the BMW driving yuppie larva who would have to have a friend explain the put down because a yupie larva would be incapable of "getting it" on their own?

Well, all righty then, "It ain't so and probably couldn't be so". How's that? Of course the real reason is that the BMW driving yuppie larva doesn't have any friends. Can you say incorrigible?

If you have or can get the money to spend to put in a meaningful solar electric installation then bless you, GO FOR IT. If there were more people of such a persuasion, the world would be a better place and the grid wouldn't be stressed so closely to the breaking point. If you do elect to proceed, please share the project information with us at the least or better yet write it up for "Home Power", a really fine magazine, and get a little something for the effort.
Take a look at a couple issues and get a feel for the style. While perusing the mag you might get some good ideas of what others have done and what the economics of their projects were like. It always helps to have a good starting point from which to make improvements rather than proceed as I often do with a surplus of brute force and awkwardness.

Patrick

 

[GlueGuy]

Patrick,

Ugh, low blow! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif What you got against John Denver? Know why he crashed? He was too short! (I'm serious!)

What'd you like to know about the EZ? Great little airplane. Goes a long ways between pit stops. A lot farther than my bladder...

So, I think the payback is reasonable for the solar. That's only part of the equation. I also think it's good for the rest of the people on the grid if I can add to the available power during the high sun. That's not a bad thing even though it's a bit altruistic. I also think it will lower demand from the out-of-state gougers enough to keep power prices lower a little longer than what would otherwise be possible (this is an un-measurable part of the cost equation).

Thanks for the tip on Home Power.

The GlueGuy

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

GlueGuy,

The thing I don't understand about the grid intertie systems with no battery bank, is that they will only generate power during the day (solar systems), when your usage is lower, but not at night, when you use lights, stereo, TV, etc. So, in the event of a blackout, the system would give you some limited ability during the day (probably not enough for air, water pump, washer, etc), but nothing at night. Basically, your only payback is the lower energy costs during the day.

I think that's the limiting factor. If the cost to install were low enough to allow installation of a large enough system to completely free the house while the sun shines, a lot more people would be installing home systems.

SHF

 

[looch]

Has anyone investigated the use of those (new?) flywheel contraptions? I had some new uninterruptable power supply requirements for work and saw an article on these things. Never really considered them as we have a back-up generator so when the grid goes dead we only have about a 15 second delay. They look like a neat alternative to batteries. I imagine they do require a bit of maintenance.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

1.7 gigawatt!? Anyone know where I can get a used DeLorean?

 

[skent]

When we moved in (where we are now) we had power failures almost weekly. All it had to do is 'LOOK' like it was gunna storm and the power went off. We lost power 15 Hours BEFORE it started snowing for the Blizzard of 96.

So I bought a generator. Best d--- generator ever made!

Ever since we bought it, we haven't lost power - even thru high winds, hale, snow and huricanes.

Best part is it will last forever since it never gets used (except for testing).

Now if only a snow blower would work like that!

Steve

 

[patrickg]

Hey GlueGuy, I thought you wanted to be PC! Then where do you get off calling John Denver short, he was Vertically Challenged! I did use Human Element Range Extenders on long xcountry flts and especially soaring were we would literally pack a picknic lunch to take with us. My 65 gal after market diesel tank on Ram 3500 lasts way longer than I do as well.

Anyway about solar power, from what I understand then this is a philosophical/political/feel-good statement with an impact similar to bailing the Titanic with a thimble. It shows that YOU at least care enough to do SOMETHING. I'm that way about some things as well. I will carry a few pieces of trash (gum wrapper, obsolete note, paper towls, or whatever) all day with my pockets bulging before I would even consider a less than totally satisfactory disposal site. This while in the midst of literers for whom my ill feelings greatly surpass BMW piloting yuppie larvae.

"Home Power" is the best of the genre, not to take anything away from Mother Earth or the others but it is just well done with full disclosure of costs, schematics, sources of parts and supplies etc. It is written in a style and at a level that communicates clearly and concisely the needed information witout talking down to you or getting overly profesorial. You don't need an engineering degree to follow the narrative of a project but as an engineer/scientist I can attest that it doesn't read like it was aimed at 6th grade dropouts or ever asks anyone if they could be a tree, what kind of tree would they be.

The gorilla installation repors appeal to the inner anarchist.

In case you haven't read anything that addresses variable orinetation of the panels WITHOUT any auto tracker mechanism. Buy or design your mounts to allow easy adjustment for seasonal variations in the sun's altitude (degrees above horizon at local apparent noon or whatever) It will increase your annual energy harvest and only takes a few minutes every few months. Still way cheaper than any of the auto trackers, single or two axis.

Finally, I really liked John Denver. I never heard anything about his height contributing to his crash. I heard he was having strenuous personal problems and there was speculation that it really wasn't accidental. Of course it could be both, he could have been despondent over his vertically challenged condition.

Patrick

 

[GlueGuy]

Patrick,

I don't know about bailing the Titanic with a thimble. If 1/2 of the homeowners in CA put up a 1KW solar system, there would be no "power crisis" in CA. In fact, so far it looks like the 10-12% conservation effort is paying off here. I have no delusions of making the conservation effort permanent, but there could be ways to incent people to conserve better. Time-based charges might be one way, but there are probably a bunch. I do think though, that enough solar systems get set up, and we might have a solution to the biggest part of the problem. Heck, CA already produces somewhere between 10% and 15% of its power through solar/wind. We've been a leader before. We might do it again.

A neighbor has an inside source on trackers, but even with the "special deal", it still works out better to just run a few extra panels. Likewise, just adjusting the panel angle 4 times a year is a lot cheaper, and pretty darn effective.

As for John Denver, the problem he had was (1)the fuel selector valve was behind his shoulder, (2) in order to reach it, he would inadvertantly step on one of the rudders. Presumption is that he was trying to switch tanks after the engine quit, and didn't realize he'd gone into a steep bank while his eyes were focused on the selector (facing backward). Since he was only a few hundred feet above the water, and he was going ~~ 150 knots or so, it only took a couple seconds to hit the drink. Plane was virtually disintegrated (him too). I can did up the NTSB report if you'd like.

The GlueGuy