SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!!

   / SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!! #21  
90cummins:

I assume from your info that you are in Mass. Your output for July looks like you are on track for the predicted power, per NREL PVWatts. You should average 570KW/month over the year, for a total of 6.86 MWh for the year. I find that their predicted output is amazingly close. I will be approaching 3 full years this fall. The predicted output was 12 MWh and I had 12.6 MWh the first year and 12.07 MWh the second year.

I am curious how the lease works. What did you pay and how is it paid off ? I see you are billed by Solar City. Do you pay them a fixed amount, or what is the method used ?

Thanks

Paul
 
   / SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!! #22  
Our electric cost are so low that any type of solar or wind powered generation is unnecessary. Currently electricity costs 5.5 cents per Kw hour. The longest power outage in the 32 years I've been here was a little less than 8 hours. We have a fantastic co-op electric utility here. It is one of very few companies that truly is a service to its members.

That's something holding back a lot of us. With a relatively low cost (about $0.09/KWH) and relatively energy efficient household we spend < $60/month and it's difficult to justify several thousand for PV.
 
   / SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!! #23  
Was there any option in the install to automatically disconnect/isolate from National Grid if they lose power and not reconnect until they were back up so you can keep your system up and operational? Some of the small hydro plants had to have this feature so they couldn't backfeed into the lines and run the risk of killing or injuring a lineman working on the lines.

I worked for National Grid for about 26 years and spent a good bit of time working in Bear Swamp and surrounding generation facilities when they owned it, so I know a little bit of Florida.
 
   / SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!!
  • Thread Starter
#24  
You can lease the system with no money down or prepay some up front as I did to secure a lower fixed cost per/kw.
Based on 8000kw/year if I leased the system with no money down my cost/kw would have been $0.145/kw or $1160 per year.
I chose to pre-pay $2020.00 which dropped my cost/kw to $0.103 or $824 per year. Over the 20 year lease period I will save an additional $6720.00.
I chose the lease because I wanted none of the responsibility of maintaining the system.
I pay a fixed cost of $65 month for 20 years.
Solarcity monitors the system remotely; I can also monitor it on my computer or IPhone.
Solarcity guarantee’s the output and will reimburse you if production falls short.
The system is Grid-Tied and shuts down if the grid goes down.
90cummins
 
   / SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!! #25  
After reading some of your posts about grid tie systems, I see that when the grid goes down, the solar operator that doesn't use batteries won't have electricity even though he is generating his own power via solar panels (during daylight of course).
I obviously need to learn more about grid tie systems, I just always assumed (there is that word again, it gets me every time) that the homeowner would still have power as long as it was daylight. Is this done this way for safety reasons so that the lineman don't get nuked from other forms of energy entering into the grid ? but if that were the case, then I would think they (the utility company) would allow for automatic cutoff/bypass switches to be used to disallow power from backfeeding into the grid until utility power was restored..... like they do with emergency generators. Thanks
 
   / SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!! #26  
You can lease the system with no money down or prepay some up front as I did to secure a lower fixed cost per/kw.
Based on 8000kw/year if I leased the system with no money down my cost/kw would have been $0.145/kw or $1160 per year.
I chose to pre-pay $2020.00 which dropped my cost/kw to $0.103 or $824 per year. Over the 20 year lease period I will save an additional $6720.00.
90cummins
So I am not quite clear on this. You pay $65/mo plus $824/yr (based on installed size ?) ?

I am not sure what the advantage is. I currently pay $ 0.12/kwh (loaded cost) from my utility. Your costs would only save $ 0.02/kwh. Am I right on this ?

paul
 
   / SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!! #27  
Some of us are paying over 30 cents a kW and this makes solar attractive.

Those that lease are locking in a guaranteed price for 20 years... as long as the company is viable I guess.
 
   / SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!! #28  
So I am not quite clear on this. You pay $65/mo plus $824/yr (based on installed size ?) ?

I am not sure what the advantage is. I currently pay $ 0.12/kwh (loaded cost) from my utility. Your costs would only save $ 0.02/kwh. Am I right on this ?

paul

If you could really generate solar power for less then 15 cents per KWH with no upfront costs solar would explode as many people already pay more than that buying from the grid.

Electricity Prices by State | Compare 2013 U.S. Electric Rates

Unfortunately it's not that simple (I wish It was). That is why you dont' see a PV system on every house built these days and also why geothermal is not more popular. It simply doesn't' pay back quick enough to justify the up front costs. In most cases by the time it pays back the equipment is already old and worn out and costing you more to maintain and replace parts that were not included in the initial numbers that were crunched. Obviously these leases and what not seem more appealing but in reality they are making money off of the deal (or they wouldn't be dong it) which costs you money in the end. Hopefully at some point the cost will be such to make things like solar and wind power sustainable without government subsidies.
 
   / SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!! #29  
If you could really generate solar power for less then 15 cents per KWH with no upfront costs solar would explode as many people already pay more than that buying from the grid.

Electricity Prices by State | Compare 2013 U.S. Electric Rates

Unfortunately it's not that simple (I wish It was). That is why you dont' see a PV system on every house built these days and also why geothermal is not more popular. It simply doesn't' pay back quick enough to justify the up front costs. In most cases by the time it pays back the equipment is already old and worn out and costing you more to maintain and replace parts that were not included in the initial numbers that were crunched. Obviously these leases and what not seem more appealing but in reality they are making money off of the deal (or they wouldn't be dong it) which costs you money in the end. Hopefully at some point the cost will be such to make things like solar and wind power sustainable without government subsidies.

The upfront costs are the stopper for solar, that why lease deals from Solar City exist. They take the renewable credits, plus give the home owner a break on electric costs. Everybody wins a little bit. I suspect Solar City wins a bit more if the current regulatory framework stays in place. You know, the same can be said for oil companies. They don't function un-subsidized either, it's just done slightly differently and they lobby congress just as hard, or harder.

For someone who can foot the upfront costs and has rates in the 0.15 per kWh range, solar will pay for itself without subsidies. It will take longer but it is now well within the expected lifetime of the equipment since the cost of panels has gone down. There are enough solar systems now with long operational histories that people can have reasonable faith in the expected lifetime of the system.

I don't doubt that by the time a solar system is say, 15 years old, it will be antiquated in some way or other. That is not a characteristic that is unique to solar systems.
 
   / SolarCity installing a 6.37kw system on my house!!! #30  
After reading some of your posts about grid tie systems, I see that when the grid goes down, the solar operator that doesn't use batteries won't have electricity even though he is generating his own power via solar panels (during daylight of course).
I obviously need to learn more about grid tie systems, I just always assumed (there is that word again, it gets me every time) that the homeowner would still have power as long as it was daylight. Is this done this way for safety reasons so that the lineman don't get nuked from other forms of energy entering into the grid ? but if that were the case, then I would think they (the utility company) would allow for automatic cutoff/bypass switches to be used to disallow power from backfeeding into the grid until utility power was restored..... like they do with emergency generators. Thanks

The inverters used in grid-tied systems do automatically disconnect the solar system from the service panel when there is a power outage. That is a performance test the inverter has to pass to be okayed for use by the utility grid it is being installed on. In practical terms, there is a list of utility approved inverters a person can use.

I know it bothers people that they cannot make use of the power generated on a sunny day while the utility power is out. First of all, for a typical outage how often is it a nice clear sunny day and the sun is somewhere south of due east and due west? On long daylight summer days, the sun spends a goodly number of morning and evening hours north of due east and west--it is behind your panels unless you have a tracking system. Night hours are out, snow, rain or just heavy storm cloud periods are out. No or no appreciable power is being generated in those times and conditions. Even a sunny day with haze can take 30%-40% of your output away.

The second limiting factor in a grid-tied system is that it is designed to draw from the grid as needed, like when a motor starts, or an electric water heater cycles. Such things may well exceed the capacity of the system. Even if it is only momentary, you have a brownout problem. The same is true for any size load if a thick cloud passes over; your power output is going to fall like a rock.

Your home appliances are designed to receive constant power, and as much of it as they need when they need it. That isn't what a grid-tied system is designed to provide.

An off-grid system uses the solar panels and charge controller to charge a large battery bank. The power you use in the home comes from the batteries, not from the panels. The battery bank and output inverter are sized to satisfy the appliances you use and has enough reserve capacity to act like the grid in a grid-tied system.

Grid-tied and off-grid comparisons are really apples and oranges.
 

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