solenoid

[Soundguy]

Great news about the solenoid.. now at least you don't have to feel like you are going crazy.

As for the starter, there should only be 2 bolts.. long ones.. they go all the way thru the starter into the casting. Caution.. do not remove the bolts from the starter housing, as the end plate is the brush holder, and is completely seperate from the field housing, and the bolts keep it lined up. If you pull the bolts out, and the armature travels more than an inch forward, the brushed pop out of the holders, and then you have to remove the brush guard , and cuss for an hour trying to slide hte armature back in while using toothpicks to hold all the brushes back in.

To remove my starter, I had to
1 loosten the bolts so they were out of the casting.. but still in the starter.( they only theread in about an inch into the casting.. Then removed the round thin sheath covering the brushes. I removed the block drain petcock, and then remove dthe bolts holding the oil filter canister.. but did not have to remove the cannister or the lines. The steel lines flex enough to get the inch or som of movement you need. When pulling the starter out, as soon as the starter is clear of the casting by 1/2 inch.. take a 7/16? nut and thread onto one o fthe long screws... this keeps the starter from falling into 3 pieces in your hand. Next, angle the rear of the starter toward the block.. in fact, let the rear edge of the starter contact the block,.. this is why you removed the drain petcock. The it should slide out.. if it hangs a bit, angle the starter down a bit.. but still towards the block. The bendix drive on these starters is actually fixed on to the end of the long starter armature, and engages the back of the flywheel. So when it starts, the bendix moves 'in' towards the starter, and then spins back 'out' towards the end of the shaft when the engine starts. The end of the bendix has a big tension spring on it.. and this is what has to clear the ring gear on the way out. Some tracors that have had the starter changed before have had the casting filed down at the 2' position, if you are looking into the starter hole. this greatly helps instalation and removal.. but it is doable without the filing, as the ford mechanics installed in in the assembly line, as is.

Also.. the I&T fo-4 manual is just about as good as it gets. The 8n owners manual is well.. useless. There is an 8n shop manual.. but is hard to tract down. I would try
www.n-news.com
If there is a reprint onthe shop manual from ford.. they will have it.

In the i&t manual, in paragraph 81? there is 1 drawing of the drive and starter.. not great but better than nothing.
Also, there is still available a master parts catalog that has all the exploded diagrams for the 8n, 9n, and 2n. Cost is 20 bucks.. n-news has it. Here's a tip. to save the 20 bucks
Go to:
www.dennis-carpenter.com
He is pretty much the leader in re-pro parts for fords. He bought the patent rights to reproduce the ford parts. He even bought much of the original tooling. His parts are guaranteed to be 'just like the original'. Anyway.. he has a thick catalog.. you can get via email or downlod it as a pdf file.. either are free.. the mailed copy may take a week.. the pdf file is available as fast as you can download it. ( it is 6.6 megs )
Besides the catalog showing what parts you can order
( virtually any part ont he tractor ).. it has 90% of the exploded diagrams from the MPC... it is like getting the MPC for free... plus a parts list.

I have a pic of an old ford starter. it should give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Just picture it like this. The flywheel is situated between bendix on the end of the shaft, and the starter.. so you have to swing it out a bit to clear it.

In certain cases, the bendix sticks inthe flywheel, and you have to put the tractor in 4th gear, and rock it back and forth to get the starter drive to spring free.

I quick edit here. For some reason I thought wwere were talking about a 8n. The NAA-6xx 8xx starter is slightly different... but not too much. The mounting flange is different. My master parts catalog still only shows 2 bolts.. not 3, and uses a similar looking starter drive. Also.. the manual is not the fo-4 or the fo-19.. not sure what it is for a 6xx series. Also, not sur ethat there is a ford shop manual available for a 6xx either. But there IS a master parts catalog available. It covers the NAA 6xx and 8xx. I have one. and just looked it over. It only shows 2 mounting bolts as well. Though I don't have a 6xx to run out and verify that. These re-print manuals are not always 100% accurate.. etc.
Keep in mind this pic is of a starter from a 48-52 model.. not a 55 model like the 640.. but it is only slightly different at the mounting flange.

hope this helps.

Soundguy

 

[higgy]

Soundguy

That is a excelent source of parts. I did not have that one and they have several parts that I need for my restoration.

Thanks a million

Dane

 

[jinman]

Kirt, my service manual says to remove the oil filter, electrical cable, and the three bolts and lockwashers from the starter where it attaches to the bell housing flange. It then says to lift the starter motor from the engine. That's all the instructions it gives. As you know, it may not be that easy. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Hopefully by the time you read this post you will have your Service Manual on order. If not, the part number is: 40060090. I think that's a New Holland number. There are five pages in the manual that describe testing and disassembly/reassembly of the starter, brushes, bearings, and bendix drive. If you can't get the manual, I can send you these pages. If I were doing it, I think I'd just try to get it rebuilt at a starter shop, but that's just me. You might want all the "fun" for yourself. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Tinkerer]

My local NH dealer is supposed to call me tomorrow with the price on their service manual. I went in yesterday and they don't know the price, they have to call the company first. Being that some of those manuals can get extremely pricey, I thought I would like to know how much before I place an order!

I think I will just have a starter shop try their hand at the re-build. I have no real desire for that kind of "fun"!

 

[jinman]

Kirt, I think my manual was around $50, but that was almost 10 years ago. I'm attaching the first page out of the Starter Motor section which shows the complete assembly/disassembly. There are special tools for driving out bushings and I think a starter/generator shop would have these punches. If your starter is dragging, it might be bearings or it just might need new brushes and the commutator dressed.

I think you will like having that Service Manual. There are lots of pages about the Select-O-Speed transmission /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif, but the rest of the manual is pretty good. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Tinkerer]

Update. Victory is mine!!

Yesterday I finally got the tractor running. After the solenoid was wired correctly, the starter went out. 75 dollars later it was re-built, but then the battery was dead, and would not re-charge. Yesterday I bought a new 6v battery from TSC and installed it, which is not as easy as it should be with a loader on the tractor. Went to start it after the battery was installed, and got nothing! I looked evrything over and found the wires from the battery to the solenoid were loose, so I tightened them. Now the tractor would turn over but not start /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif After standing there and staring at it a while, I discovered a wire going to the coil was broken, so I replaced it and the tractor fired up on the first crank!

It is a good thing our house and barn cannot be seen by any of our neighbors, they would have thought Ricky Martin was there doing a victory dance /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif By the way, I only know who he is because my wife once watched a video of his /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

My wife was so excited and impressed with my achievement that she almost stopped vaccuuming to watch me demonstrate it. Poor thing, she really needs to control her enthusiasm!

Thanks for all your help in getting this thing fixed. I actually got to use it last night. My brother needed me to pull him out of a mud hole he had gotten his mini van stuck in.

 

[Soundguy]

First, Congrats!

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( battery was dead, and would not re-charge. Yesterday I bought a new 6v battery from TSC and installed it, which is not as easy as it should be with a loader on the tractor )</font>

Though I would rather have more choices for 6v batteries.. I must admit.. TSC has a good price.. 29.99 here in florida.
As as for instalation.. it doesn't get much better without the loader. You either have to finagle it in from the side or the top, and insulate the posts while doing so... not a real fun job.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( By the way, I only know who he is because my wife once watched a video of his )</font>

Sure.. we believe you.. really. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Problems like that are the hardest to diagnose.. when two related and co-dependent systems fail.

Have fun with the tractor.

Soundguy

 

[slowrev]

Who is Ricky Martin ?

 

[Tinkerer]

Yeah the battery was 29.99 here in Indiana as well. TSC and Rural King were the only two places I could find 6v batteries. I suppose one of the auto parts stores may have had them, but the price would probably have been much higher.

Now that she starts and the lift works, it is on to other projects. I have to replace the upper and lower bearings in the steering box, but am waiting for warmer weather!

 

[Soundguy]

I think Napa or carquest may also carry 6v batteries.. but would theink they would be high$. I havn't had any luck finding an auto store ( like autozone ..etc ) that carries 6v batteries anymore.

Soundguy