Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,238
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
Great news about the solenoid.. now at least you don't have to feel like you are going crazy.
As for the starter, there should only be 2 bolts.. long ones.. they go all the way thru the starter into the casting. Caution.. do not remove the bolts from the starter housing, as the end plate is the brush holder, and is completely seperate from the field housing, and the bolts keep it lined up. If you pull the bolts out, and the armature travels more than an inch forward, the brushed pop out of the holders, and then you have to remove the brush guard , and cuss for an hour trying to slide hte armature back in while using toothpicks to hold all the brushes back in.
To remove my starter, I had to
1 loosten the bolts so they were out of the casting.. but still in the starter.( they only theread in about an inch into the casting.. Then removed the round thin sheath covering the brushes. I removed the block drain petcock, and then remove dthe bolts holding the oil filter canister.. but did not have to remove the cannister or the lines. The steel lines flex enough to get the inch or som of movement you need. When pulling the starter out, as soon as the starter is clear of the casting by 1/2 inch.. take a 7/16? nut and thread onto one o fthe long screws... this keeps the starter from falling into 3 pieces in your hand. Next, angle the rear of the starter toward the block.. in fact, let the rear edge of the starter contact the block,.. this is why you removed the drain petcock. The it should slide out.. if it hangs a bit, angle the starter down a bit.. but still towards the block. The bendix drive on these starters is actually fixed on to the end of the long starter armature, and engages the back of the flywheel. So when it starts, the bendix moves 'in' towards the starter, and then spins back 'out' towards the end of the shaft when the engine starts. The end of the bendix has a big tension spring on it.. and this is what has to clear the ring gear on the way out. Some tracors that have had the starter changed before have had the casting filed down at the 2' position, if you are looking into the starter hole. this greatly helps instalation and removal.. but it is doable without the filing, as the ford mechanics installed in in the assembly line, as is.
Also.. the I&T fo-4 manual is just about as good as it gets. The 8n owners manual is well.. useless. There is an 8n shop manual.. but is hard to tract down. I would try
www.n-news.com
If there is a reprint onthe shop manual from ford.. they will have it.
In the i&t manual, in paragraph 81? there is 1 drawing of the drive and starter.. not great but better than nothing.
Also, there is still available a master parts catalog that has all the exploded diagrams for the 8n, 9n, and 2n. Cost is 20 bucks.. n-news has it. Here's a tip. to save the 20 bucks
Go to:
www.dennis-carpenter.com
He is pretty much the leader in re-pro parts for fords. He bought the patent rights to reproduce the ford parts. He even bought much of the original tooling. His parts are guaranteed to be 'just like the original'. Anyway.. he has a thick catalog.. you can get via email or downlod it as a pdf file.. either are free.. the mailed copy may take a week.. the pdf file is available as fast as you can download it. ( it is 6.6 megs )
Besides the catalog showing what parts you can order
( virtually any part ont he tractor ).. it has 90% of the exploded diagrams from the MPC... it is like getting the MPC for free... plus a parts list.
I have a pic of an old ford starter. it should give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Just picture it like this. The flywheel is situated between bendix on the end of the shaft, and the starter.. so you have to swing it out a bit to clear it.
In certain cases, the bendix sticks inthe flywheel, and you have to put the tractor in 4th gear, and rock it back and forth to get the starter drive to spring free.
I quick edit here. For some reason I thought wwere were talking about a 8n. The NAA-6xx 8xx starter is slightly different... but not too much. The mounting flange is different. My master parts catalog still only shows 2 bolts.. not 3, and uses a similar looking starter drive. Also.. the manual is not the fo-4 or the fo-19.. not sure what it is for a 6xx series. Also, not sur ethat there is a ford shop manual available for a 6xx either. But there IS a master parts catalog available. It covers the NAA 6xx and 8xx. I have one. and just looked it over. It only shows 2 mounting bolts as well. Though I don't have a 6xx to run out and verify that. These re-print manuals are not always 100% accurate.. etc.
Keep in mind this pic is of a starter from a 48-52 model.. not a 55 model like the 640.. but it is only slightly different at the mounting flange.
hope this helps.
Soundguy
As for the starter, there should only be 2 bolts.. long ones.. they go all the way thru the starter into the casting. Caution.. do not remove the bolts from the starter housing, as the end plate is the brush holder, and is completely seperate from the field housing, and the bolts keep it lined up. If you pull the bolts out, and the armature travels more than an inch forward, the brushed pop out of the holders, and then you have to remove the brush guard , and cuss for an hour trying to slide hte armature back in while using toothpicks to hold all the brushes back in.
To remove my starter, I had to
1 loosten the bolts so they were out of the casting.. but still in the starter.( they only theread in about an inch into the casting.. Then removed the round thin sheath covering the brushes. I removed the block drain petcock, and then remove dthe bolts holding the oil filter canister.. but did not have to remove the cannister or the lines. The steel lines flex enough to get the inch or som of movement you need. When pulling the starter out, as soon as the starter is clear of the casting by 1/2 inch.. take a 7/16? nut and thread onto one o fthe long screws... this keeps the starter from falling into 3 pieces in your hand. Next, angle the rear of the starter toward the block.. in fact, let the rear edge of the starter contact the block,.. this is why you removed the drain petcock. The it should slide out.. if it hangs a bit, angle the starter down a bit.. but still towards the block. The bendix drive on these starters is actually fixed on to the end of the long starter armature, and engages the back of the flywheel. So when it starts, the bendix moves 'in' towards the starter, and then spins back 'out' towards the end of the shaft when the engine starts. The end of the bendix has a big tension spring on it.. and this is what has to clear the ring gear on the way out. Some tracors that have had the starter changed before have had the casting filed down at the 2' position, if you are looking into the starter hole. this greatly helps instalation and removal.. but it is doable without the filing, as the ford mechanics installed in in the assembly line, as is.
Also.. the I&T fo-4 manual is just about as good as it gets. The 8n owners manual is well.. useless. There is an 8n shop manual.. but is hard to tract down. I would try
www.n-news.com
If there is a reprint onthe shop manual from ford.. they will have it.
In the i&t manual, in paragraph 81? there is 1 drawing of the drive and starter.. not great but better than nothing.
Also, there is still available a master parts catalog that has all the exploded diagrams for the 8n, 9n, and 2n. Cost is 20 bucks.. n-news has it. Here's a tip. to save the 20 bucks
Go to:
www.dennis-carpenter.com
He is pretty much the leader in re-pro parts for fords. He bought the patent rights to reproduce the ford parts. He even bought much of the original tooling. His parts are guaranteed to be 'just like the original'. Anyway.. he has a thick catalog.. you can get via email or downlod it as a pdf file.. either are free.. the mailed copy may take a week.. the pdf file is available as fast as you can download it. ( it is 6.6 megs )
Besides the catalog showing what parts you can order
( virtually any part ont he tractor ).. it has 90% of the exploded diagrams from the MPC... it is like getting the MPC for free... plus a parts list.
I have a pic of an old ford starter. it should give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Just picture it like this. The flywheel is situated between bendix on the end of the shaft, and the starter.. so you have to swing it out a bit to clear it.
In certain cases, the bendix sticks inthe flywheel, and you have to put the tractor in 4th gear, and rock it back and forth to get the starter drive to spring free.
I quick edit here. For some reason I thought wwere were talking about a 8n. The NAA-6xx 8xx starter is slightly different... but not too much. The mounting flange is different. My master parts catalog still only shows 2 bolts.. not 3, and uses a similar looking starter drive. Also.. the manual is not the fo-4 or the fo-19.. not sure what it is for a 6xx series. Also, not sur ethat there is a ford shop manual available for a 6xx either. But there IS a master parts catalog available. It covers the NAA 6xx and 8xx. I have one. and just looked it over. It only shows 2 mounting bolts as well. Though I don't have a 6xx to run out and verify that. These re-print manuals are not always 100% accurate.. etc.
Keep in mind this pic is of a starter from a 48-52 model.. not a 55 model like the 640.. but it is only slightly different at the mounting flange.
hope this helps.
Soundguy